NA vs UK

[Aman-Singh]

Wassup guys,


I got to chat to a few of you at WBBC. This is a topic I've been thinking about for a little bit now since TBC happened in the UK around November time and more so since JVD won WBBC.


At WBBC we had Ankhile (who placed 4th at TBC) come over from the UK and beat our champions Cornell in their match up. Ankhile then went to place 3rd overall at WBBC.


JVD didn't compete at TBC and won WBBC outright.
I've watched their video from WBBC a few times (Thanks again Harjot - holding it down brother), and I do not see them placing above 3rd at TBC, maybe even 4th. This then pushes Ankhile down to 5th at TBC. To me this is the most telling situation when I compare our scene to the UK scene.


It amazes me how far the UK have gone, and we haven't seen the best of them on our land. With UK competitions coming up this fall I would love to see some teams travel out there and compete.


To me it would be amazing to see NJW, JJ and GCC at the same comp, putting up the winners of 3 top comps against each other.
These 3 teams are head and shoulders above the rest of the circuit and have made the best sets I've seen since 2011/2012. They all have their own unique style, which would make this comp frikkin amazing!


Comp organisers (UK and NA), please make this happen!




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWRWKwgWV-A




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQ8YTYssdpI




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iSVhhvGYmE

 

[Prabhzy]

You do realise JVD and ANkhile might make new sets for TBC this year which might place. I dont think its right to predict future placings with past comps as this is not a true representation. ;D


But yeah would love to see teams like NJ or FCB come to the UK to compete!

 

[Aman-Singh]

You do realise JVD and ANkhile might make new sets for TBC this year which might place. I dont think its right to predict future placings with past comps as this is not a true representation. ;D

Yes I do, I was referring to their set at WBBC placing at TBC 2014.


Are you from the UK Prabhzy? Do you know why they didn't compete?

 

[sangeensingh]

UK>NA

 

[shwinerz]

Interesting post.
I think the thing with UK atm is that teams step up a HUGE amount year on year for that one comp, and since there's more teams competing they really need to be right on top of their game.
I bet the top 4 from TBC, + JVD all going to take it to a new level, and who knows there could be a dark horse in it (like JVD 2013).

There's an interesting post on nachdapunjab (UK teams forum) on a similar topic which has been getting a lot of discussion, would definetly be great to hear some opinions from NA on our forum since the subject is regarding competing in UK or NA.

http://nachdapunjab.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=582

 

[amancheema]

UK has established its own style for the most part and its absolutely nuts... I see it as a fusion of Canada/U.S.


nachu saraaaa

 

[Saab]

Also extremely interested.

Edit - meant to post this on bhangra wars thread. I do think the talent gap between top tier teams is minimal at this point. Motivation for older and more established teams in NA might prohibit them from crossing the pond, though I think the right competition could engender the response necessary to bring people over. This is especially true in the case of the sgods, njs, etc of the NA scene.

 

[ramv88]

You do realise JVD and ANkhile might make new sets for TBC this year which might place. I dont think its right to predict future placings with past comps as this is not a true representation. ;D


But yeah would love to see teams like NJ or FCB come to the UK to compete!

I would def want to check out the UK scene out---Sounds like a jolly good ole time! Chalo!

- Dholi Ram

 

[shwinerz]

Well, Bhangra Wars reg packs are out. (http://simplybhangra.com/news/bhangra-news/9023-register-now-for-bhangra-wars-2015.html)

About time some of you guys come over, get on it.

UK has established its own style for the most part and its absolutely nuts... I see it as a fusion of Canada/U.S.


nachu saraaaa

Of course theres a lot of influence, particularly a few years ago, but I do think UK is way more folk focused and less gimmick focused, both in terms of choreo, and also in terms of mixes. Also we're getting to that stage where the bigger teams definitely have their own sense of styling (which of course was probably influenced from NA originally)

 

[Worlds Best Bhangra Crew]

WBBC's goal was to internationalize the circuit. Mission accomplished.

Revolution has begun.

GO TO THE UK, EVERYONE.

USA! USA! USA! USA!

 

[Basim]

First off, welcome to BTF Aman-Singh Glad you've become active on the forums. Hope it continues my friend.

I was just waiting for a topic like this to spring up..

I honestly don't feel this is a way to make a direct comparison because there are so many factors that are different between the U.K. and North America (culturally, linguistically, geographically, socioeconomically, etc etc). If you compare with the U.S. alone, then take for instance there are approx 3+ million South Asians in each of our respective countries. This translates to roughly 1% of the population in the U.S. and about 5% of the population in the U.K. To understand concentration of this South Asian population, you have to compare their respective sizes. Do most people realize that the entire country of England can fit into roughly HALF of CALIFORNIA alone? Think about how large North America is in comparison.

Most of the South Asians in North America are concentrated in heavily populated cities. Because of the massive areas where bhangra had to reach in the U.S., a lot of teams that sprung up in the early days were based around universities. This is why super old competitions (20+ years of being active) like "Bhangra Blowout" have only allowed collegiate teams to compete (and continue to do so to this day). On the other hand, in the U.K., you see a lot more independent teams in relation to number of college/university teams.

I feel the U.K. has come a LONG way in a SHORT period of time. It's amazing to see how quickly the circuit grew there and how quickly dancing talent has spread. While the U.K. did have a few teams that date back in the old school days (i.e. 4X4 Bhangra, Nachda Sansaar, etc), most of the teams dancing in their circuit and the competitions that have surfaced, have all been within the last few years. We have to ask ourselves, without a legacy of teams that helped change & evolve bhangra dancing in the U.K. circuit, where did their primary influence come from? I'm actually a bit shocked that the youth of England did not foster such a cultural dance when the top British bhangra artists sprung from the Punjabi diaspora and globalized music starting in the early 80's.

Here in North America, we have come a LONG way in a LONG period of time. There are certain teams still active today who carry legacies from WAY back in the day. I'm dating myself here, but I remember being in high school and watching top univ teams like Cornell Bhangra that would bring so much crazy energy.. throw in crazy stunts.. and get the crowd pumped by sheer nakhre/rumaal action. If you look at academies, there are those like SIAC who date as far back as the 70's! In North America, while teams in Punjab might have been the early influence, I truly feel that we have evolved and tailored the dance to reflect our progressive audiences. There is also various styles present within teams in North America and hence various competitions geared at specific styles.

Nowadays, there are so many teams popping up across the world, that I often feel the newer generation has lost a lot of appreciation for what was established before them. It's a privilege being up on that stage and regardless of which country, university, team, or academy/group you're affiliated with.. you should be thankful for having that opportunity and appreciate how the style of bhangra you love to perform came to where it is today.

Grandpa bhangra signing out,

~ Basim

P.S. - Sorry for the rant. Would love to see more globalization of the circuit as I only think it would help the dance and show audience unique aspects of different countries - U.S., Canada, UK, Punjab, and don't forget out up & coming Australia neighbors :-*

 

[mrchicity]

IMO, the UK scene has really benefitted from watching youtube videos of the top tier teams in North America. UK sets (especially like the ones at WBBC) now have great, complex choreography and great formations, and the teams really emphasize great form, but the one thing I don't see from the UK scene just yet is the innovation that teams like NJ/SGPD/NYPD/PCBCA showcased when they were still competing regularly. I much prefer the UK sets to most NA sets these days, but I don't think the UK has really surpassed the top tier NA teams just yet, except in their video editing skills (wtf were those videos playing in the background for JVD/Ankhile/BASS, how do you guys have the time to make those???).

 

[Shahrukh]

UK coed teams are miles ahead of 90% of US coed teams. The sets coming out of the UK coed scene have far more intricate choreography and formation mechanisms than the ones in the US. The dancers are also dancing at a higher level, dancing closer to what I like to call "India team form" than most of the Coed teams in the US.

 

[Prabhzy]

All good points raised by everyone. I think UK will finally match NA teams in a couple of years fully if the current standards keep improving.


Interesting point to note. IMO Aussie teams currently are what UK scene was in 2012. Upcoming teams with one good team by far (GCC to today's BASS). I think if Aus teams also take the same learning approach i think in a couple of years we will see TWO not one Aus team capable of competing at WBBC

 

[Jusi.Sahota]

One thing that separates UK bhangra from US Bhangra is the style of dance. UK teams like JVD, Ankhile, NS, AJ, GCC are bringing back the traditional side of Bhangra in terms of the dance itself (and are using really old school tracks as well). When Empire were REALLY popular, I remember a lot of newer UK teams enjoying that style of dance and adopting that same style (labelled as "Contemporary") and now a few US teams are doing the same (throwing in gimmicks, stunts etc etc). Maybe US teams need to change their style of dance and bring back the folk/traditional side of dance that once existed. There are a few teams out there (NJW, JJ, MOB Chicago, FCB) that I've watched and delve into the traditional side of bhangra...maybe US teams need to do the same in order to to discover their own identity as well as grow as a team?

 

[Shahrukh]

One thing that separates UK bhangra from US Bhangra is the style of dance. UK teams like JVD, Ankhile, NS, AJ, GCC are bringing back the traditional side of Bhangra in terms of the dance itself (and are using really old school tracks as well). When Empire were REALLY popular, I remember a lot of newer UK teams enjoying that style of dance and adopting that same style (labelled as "Contemporary") and now a few US teams are doing the same (throwing in gimmicks, stunts etc etc). Maybe US teams need to change their style of dance and bring back the folk/traditional side of dance that once existed. There are a few teams out there (NJW, JJ, MOB Chicago, FCB) that I've watched and delve into the traditional side of bhangra...maybe US teams need to do the same in order to to discover their own identity as well as grow as a team?

There are a ton of teams in the US that keep their form and routines on the traditional side

Furteelay, Virsa, BK, Ankhilay Gabroo, NSG, UVA, Cal, VCU, MOB, SMD to name a few....

 

[gursh313]

I see another entrance to the 'folk' vs 'modern' debate.


As Shahrukh just mentioned there are plenty of teams that keep to just dancing. NJW, NSG, UVA, etc have all shown that they're able to dance without using gimmicks throughout their routine. We can see that comparison with most UK teams like GCC, JVD, NS, AB, and AJ.

I don't think the UK has really surpassed the top tier NA teams just yet, except in their video editing skills (wtf were those videos playing in the background for JVD/Ankhile/BASS, how do you guys have the time to make those???).

GCC and JVD are headed in the right direction, I really enjoy the sets coming out of the UK but overall dancing level of UK's top teams isn't as high as the NA's top teams but that all comes with time.


Also I definitely agree with the background videos, BK laid the framework but WBBC really showed the potential of teams using media in the backdrop.

 

[Cherag]

I was going to say this on a JVD, GCC, or Ankile post but I think that the difference between the UK circuit and the US circuit is the passion. There is more collective passion throughout the United Kingdom, because everything is so new. Standardizing as a concept has been talked about in the US by teams as soon as cleanliness started being a heavy weight in judging. And that was a while ago for us. Also I feel as though dancers from the UK, I really haven't seen one who is a natural or a fundamentally sound dancers. Personally there is no dancer that I have seen from the UK that has natural grace with their Bhangra compared to the US where we I feel have an abundance of it. The only place I kind of see it sometimes is GCC (because of older things that Vic was their for) and now APPD is kind of creeping but even these two teams don't have any wow dancers to me that I look at and say wow he or she is naturally powerful. JVD I love y'all and the energy you all bring, but over standardized dancing happens with y'all to me and there is a loss of natural Bhangra whether it is the way you do Chaffa or the way you do Sammi. DO NOT STOP DOING WHAT YOU DO, your style is unique and you are preserving the art of actually dancing, I just wish dancers seemed more natural and not forced. Bhangra with the US to me, well less passionate across the nation is still stronger, there is a heavier focus on innovation. And I mean not just gimmicks, there could be a way to do it through set creation choreography, intricacy in formations. You guys all do this but there hasn't really been a presented identity. It's no getting there more but I feel like US teams are identity based and standout in how they do what they do, there is just too much overlapping similarity in UK sets. Maybe it is because the learning is similar because of the closeness. University competitions as well for you guys don't stand out with an identity with each university. It just seems like everyone is doing the same EXACT thing, and the one who does it the best, wins. I will however say that the UK is ahead in lighting, sound and stage, when it comes down at a show production aspect, it looks like their stages are worth dancing on. There are great sets that come of out of the UK, but a lack of great dancers, I hope to see more of it in the future.

 

[The Honest Truth]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves and suggest that UK teams are better then NA. Not taking anything away from JVD, Im sure they were great at WBBC. But to suggest that somehow makes an entire continents teams better then us over here is kinda ludicrous. And beating "the champs" who had already won the previous 2 comps on there 3rd performance there doesn't really make JVD better then Cornell. Come on guys, use your heads.

 

[The Honest Truth]

UK>NA

Be cool brah...