NA vs UK

[faizan]

UK>Canada>USA>Australia

The shift has been made, get used to it ya'll.

It's close right now, but by next season, it won't be.

--USA is boring. All teams do is the same shit at every competition (especially the co-ed teams, please stop with the same boring routines, please). All the good guys teams from the USA are retired/compete once in a blue. (BK, AEG, JJ, three best)

--Canada used to be the best, but their best teams compete once in a blue moon, so can't say much about them like we used to.

--UK has like 5 AMAZING teams who in my opinion can beat anyone if they set their minds to it.

--Australia needs 2 years.

 

[Prabhzy]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves and suggest that UK teams are better then NA. Not taking anything away from JVD, Im sure they were great at WBBC. But to suggest that somehow makes an entire continents teams better then us over here is kinda ludicrous. And beating "the champs" who had already won the previous 2 comps on there 3rd performance there doesn't really make JVD better then Cornell. Come on guys, use your heads.

No one is saying that UK teams have already become better, they still need more comps and more skill to get to NJ, SGPD, NYPD


But the main point is that look at the time it has taken from the shoddy bhangra teams used to do in TBS from 2009-2011 to the quality we have now. Its only been since 2012 that the independent scene has kicked off here. So in just 3 years the results are commendable. Compared to your scene where teams have been dancing since early 2000s. So you've had nearly 15 years to build up the scene and legacy of many teams. UK just needs time to improve more and bring more teams in the scene.

 

[mrchicity]

But the main point is that look at the time it has taken from the shoddy bhangra teams used to do in TBS from 2009-2011 to the quality we have now. Its only been since 2012 that the independent scene has kicked off here. So in just 3 years the results are commendable. Compared to your scene where teams have been dancing since early 2000s. So you've had nearly 15 years to build up the scene and legacy of many teams. UK just needs time to improve more and bring more teams in the scene.

I wouldn't put too much stock into that, things changed here pretty rapidly too. Look at US sets from 2006-2007 versus sets from 2009-2010 and you'll see a huge difference in style and form. Back in 2007, lots of co-ed teams still had gidha segments in the middle of the routine and they would have the guys go off stage, by 2008 that was largely taboo. I think it's great that the UK is really getting into it, and I would echo Cherag's point about the UK teams having greater passion than the majority of US teams, but I wouldn't say that the UK has been improving at such a relatively accelerated rate. The big changes in US teams came around the advent of Youtube, before then there wasn't really a way to learn about how teams in India did things unless people actually went to Punjab and taped a performance there or brought back VHS/DVDs.

 

[gursh313]

I was going to say this on a JVD, GCC, or Ankile post but I think that the difference between the UK circuit and the US circuit is the passion. There is more collective passion throughout the United Kingdom, because everything is so new.

I think this is also because the dancers in the UK are an older age group than the dancers in NA. The UK dancers that came to WBBC, many of them were adults who graduated school and are already working. Many dancers in NA stop during college or right after they graduate (University teams), where as many of these individuals started dancing afterwards. Maturity plays a role in the whole 'passion' issue.

 

[Aman-Singh]

UK>Canada>USA>Australia

The shift has been made, get used to it ya'll.

It's close right now, but by next season, it won't be.

--USA is boring. All teams do is the same shit at every competition (especially the co-ed teams, please stop with the same boring routines, please). All the good guys teams from the USA are retired/compete once in a blue. (BK, AEG, JJ, three best)

--Canada used to be the best, but their best teams compete once in a blue moon, so can't say much about them like we used to.

--UK has like 5 AMAZING teams who in my opinion can beat anyone if they set their minds to it.

--Australia needs 2 years.

Agree with this. Y'all need to stop acting like we got something special in NA. We had something from 2009-2012 and now its gone- apart from those few teams I mentioned earlier.


Some of y'all saying about natural dancing, in my opinion what GCC may lack (I see what y'all mean but dont completely agree) they make up with their formations and creative ideas within the set. JVD may also make it up in a different way.


They can win an elite comp out here.

 

[harsharn]

There have been posts from lots of different people in NA but not too many from across the pond so here’s another essay for you all to read…


Firstly, I think the issue here is literally a difference of opinion on what we think bhangra should be. For me and most of my team, the NA scene peaked in 2010/11. I feel that there was a really good balance of “folk” but entertaining bhangra with little or no gimmicks and I think that’s what some of us UK teams are going for. Of course we won’t be as innovative as NA teams if they have tanks on stage or have lightshows mid-performance, but with all due respect that is largely because we don’t want to do that kind of stuff. I can’t think of many UK dancers I know who enjoy them things, which is probably why we all look the same to you. Hopefully you can understand from our more recent performances that this less gimmicky but entertaining style is what we are going for.


There seems to be a few misconceptions as well so Basim just for your knowledge, we had some old UK teams competing in the early 2000s who actually won in NA and there are definitely more university teams now compared to independent teams in the UK. Also Cherag, Vic has had no involvement with GCC for over 3 years and out of the 16 people dancing at TBC, 14 people had never met him let alone been taught about dancing/choreo, including those who choreographed the last set.


I don’t think I agree with Jusi.Sahota’s post about NA doing contemporary – your scene over there really is quite diverse and you do have a wide range of team/styles but I think the point he meant to make was that these gimmicky teams had been winning big competitions like WBBC in the recent past. For me NJW was the only NA set in the last few years that had minimal gimmicks but remained extremely entertaining throughout.


Cherag I do partly agree with your statement that UK doesn’t have any proper stand out dancers. There are a select few that are appreciated by the UK scene but I guess not as many as NA had and I feel this is somewhat down to a lack of competitions here. I remember when we went to WBBC a few years ago and heard that the majority of people had done over ten competitions. It surprised us since it would still be very hard to find a single UK dancer who has done more than this number of comps!


I can say of course we have been influenced by the NA scene, exactly the way you all watched each other’s YouTube videos and influenced one another. However, it almost sounds like a select few people are too busy comparing us to retired NA teams to show some appreciation for what the UK has done in a short period of time. Ultimately, we only had these YouTube videos mentioned to learn from; no one to personally teach us or a 20 year old bhangra scene with dancers/choreos/captains of the past but we’ve still caught up and this debate has now divided opinion. I’m not too bothered about who’s better right now but hopefully the UK scene is already or will eventually be influencing you guys too.

 

[Lally]

Canada's been quiet but don't let the silence fool you. We got some fresh blood coming into the circuit this year!

 

[AnkurK]

Even a deer could run the jungle til the lion comes

 

[Prabhzy]

Yes UK de SHER are coming ;D

 

[Danny]

Even a deer could run the jungle til the lion comes

Damn.

#Murica

 

[faizan]

best. thread. ever.

fuck it.

ON BEHALF OF THE USA, WE DECLARE WAR!!!

JJ-AEG-FAUJ-BK-FCB-ABC-SHER FOUNDATION-KJ-VCU-VDW-LBC-GABROO SHOKEEN-HPD-APD-CORNELL-THREE RIVERS BHANGRA-TBT COLLABO COMING

 

[Prabhzy]

best. thread. ever.

fuck it.

ON BEHALF OF THE USA, WE DECLARE WAR!!!

JJ-AEG-FAUJ-BK-FCB-ABC-SHER FOUNDATION-KJ-VCU-VDW-LBC-GABROO SHOKEEN-HPD-APD-CORNELL-THREE RIVERS BHANGRA-TBT COLLABO COMING

dont give me false hope. its not good for the heart Faizan

 

[Lally]

I'm pretty sure Canada wouldn't mind taking part in Bhangra World War I.

Music:
PCBCA
SHAN E PUNJAB
VANCITY
SGPD
NJ

Live:
SIAC
KOHINOOR
SHAN E TORONTO
PCBCA
NJ

 

[faizan]

http://avstv.com/?p=5726

HERE ARE SOME HIGHLIGHTS FROM THE FIRST BATTLE.

BW1 COMING NEXT

 

[yraparla]

Basim hit the nail on the head imo. UK has a denser population and fewer overall dancers. We have Norcal, SoCal, Pitt, DMV, Toronto, Vancouver/Seattle, NY/NJ, Boston, Chicago etc. Imagine if each region had the top 16 dancers on a team. Then imagine if there were only 6-10 teams in all of US and we funnelled talent into those teams. It's not comparable.

To say NA doesn't have passion is a disservice to the multitude of teams working hard around the continent (especially college teams). Our talent is diluted though, and we never developed infrastructure to handle the explosive growth of 2006-2010.

Style-wise, we are where we are in the NA circuit (gimmicks) because clean, well-executed choreo was winning all the time and people got bored. It's a pendulum and we're just swinging back towards solid execution. It happens every couple years without fail, but UK doesn't necessarily deal with this at the same pace because of a slower cycle due to fewer comps.

Which isn't to say that UK isn't great right now, but it's all very fluid. The top teams in NA I think still beat the UK, but the average UK team may have improved on the average NA team. But there's also like 4x (maybe 6x?) teams in NA so take it with a grain of salt. I know college co-ed teams should be looking at UK right now, because they are really nailing the balance of creativity and choreography for co-eds, but NA is very diverse in styles and not everything will translate.

 

[RsKderpu]

Nowadays, there are so many teams popping up across the world, that I often feel the newer generation has lost a lot of appreciation for what was established before them.

+1, Thats true and it's sad.

 

[Cherag]

Of course we won’t be as innovative as NA teams if they have tanks on stage or have lightshows mid-performance, but with all due respect that is largely because we don’t want to do that kind of stuff. I can’t think of many UK dancers I know who enjoy them things, which is probably why we all look the same to you. Hopefully you can understand from our more recent performances that this less gimmicky but entertaining style is what we are going for.

Innovation at a Bhangra regard, there's a clear difference between a CMU UVA and UNC, because identity is maintained. I'm saying y'all are creeping into having an identity for your independent teams, but your university teams cannot easily be identified as different from each other at a global spectator standpoint. And I'm not saying to do gimmicks, good Bhangra not only be appealing, but it should win everywhere, if it's unique, packaged and clean.

Also Cherag, Vic has had no involvement with GCC for over 3 years and out of the 16 people dancing at TBC, 14 people had never met him let alone been taught about dancing/choreo, including those who choreographed the last set.

That's fine but GCC had an identity even when y'all went six man at wars, or y'all performed with that original live set. Your recent set was good, well packaged and executed with proper josh, but lacked cleanliness, and at times standardization. Regardless of it, you have had an identity that I saw three years ago when he was there, which was my point in referencing him because that live set to me wasn't the "British SGPD" it was GCC no matter who the influence or active members were at that time.

Cherag I do partly agree with your statement that UK doesn’t have any proper stand out dancers. There are a select few that are appreciated by the UK scene but I guess not as many as NA had and I feel this is somewhat down to a lack of competitions here. I remember when we went to WBBC a few years ago and heard that the majority of people had done over ten competitions. It surprised us since it would still be very hard to find a single UK dancer who has done more than this number of comps!

I feel like you guys can have this, there are so many dancers with the potential to be great in the UK, I want to see natural dancing even more throughout UK dancers. I will say the UK is better at standardizing their teams, especially while going 16 much more often than US teams. It is awesome to see this, I just wish the standardized Bhangra looked more natural that's all.

To say NA doesn't have passion is a disservice to the multitude of teams working hard around the continent (especially college teams). Our talent is diluted though, and we never developed infrastructure to handle the explosive growth of 2006-2010.

It's not a knock on younger teams, but in a line-up at a competition the hunger to win, or the hunger to be great in just presenting a great wholesome performance isn't how teams approach competitions now. Teams now are ok if they "did well", I didn't learn it that way and I bet you the OG's in the circuit even yourself wouldn't be ok with that mentality. Going to competitions 6/8 years ago, teams had a different edge from the mixer to tech time to the show, it's just not the same lol.

 

[mrchicity]

To say NA doesn't have passion is a disservice to the multitude of teams working hard around the continent (especially college teams). Our talent is diluted though, and we never developed infrastructure to handle the explosive growth of 2006-2010.

It's not a knock on younger teams, but in a line-up at a competition the hunger to win, or the hunger to be great in just presenting a great wholesome performance isn't how teams approach competitions now. Teams now are ok if they "did well", I didn't learn it that way and I bet you the OG's in the circuit even yourself wouldn't be ok with that mentality. Going to competitions 6/8 years ago, teams had a different edge from the mixer to tech time to the show, it's just not the same lol.

Maybe passion is the wrong word, but I feel US college teams in particular have something lacking compared to other teams on the circuit, here or abroad. Maybe it's because most of the members are starting to learn about bhangra, or as Swi said the talent is diluted, but I feel a serious lack of hunger from college teams. It's as if they see these routines on youtube and just try to make routines that are up to those levels instead of attempting to do something better. There's an emphasis on just making a clean set and doing enough crowd pleasing moments to barely hold a judge's interest, but there's little to no emphasis on having a concept for each segment and really thinking about what could really build up to each segment's focal point. I see that a lot more these days from the UK sets, and I wish I could see that again soon here at home.

 

[Prabhzy]

http://nachdapunjab.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=582&sid=7107b0fdeae856c752ca8c6cb9eb4211


UK vs US debate going on at nachdapunjab.co.uk too

 

[hardeep_singh]

NA > UK
one word, academies, Shan-E, NJ, DCMPAA, SGPD, all the jr and high school teams in cali and canada, that's the next gen of dancers. they will blow the current generation out of the water. currently it feels like the NA scene is in decline because of the fact that independent teams have been fading out, people retire, get old, lose their passion for bhangra. past few years though some of the most entertaining sets ive seen have been by little stars, golden boys, nj waris. by the time those kids are competing theyre gonna dance as naturally as the shivchand kids or high level punjab collegiate team guys. i feel like currently the whole NA scene is just crowded with college teams, some decent, most not so much, it overshadows the active talented independent teams like, virsa, furteelay, bk. the other advantage working in the favor of the NA scene is that the punjabi generation growing up here never really lost touch with the old school culture. it's fun being at a comp and having random ass boli sessions start up anywhere and everywhere or talking about the most pindu topics imaginable, i feel like that authenticity is lacking with the UK teams. the fact is though that cultural connection and or raw dancing ability/talent isn't what wins comps, it's clean execution, but you can execute clean as fuck and win comps as much as you want, if you don't understand what you're dancing to or lack a passion for the language and culture, you're just limiting yourself.