Ok this is seriously getting outta hand...

[250Dholi]

That video was the most disgusting thing I've seen come out of India. And yes, I did sit through Dosti.

To commodify the Sikh religion and its most powerful symbol into a vehicle for marketability and consumption only proves the ways in which Sikhs and Punjabis are treated as minorities in India, in the worst way possible.

I think that's a bit too harsh...and that if we took every film like this seriously we would be miserable.

Not that it's "okay", but movies that feed off of religions including Hinduism/Islam/Christianity/Judaism etc. come out all the time, but with no intention of hatred/prejudice, I don't think this is of the worst in that batch...

duuuuude Summy, what's with you and personal insults and pointing fingers? I'm not Sikh, but it must be written SOMEWHERE to be kind and love your fellow brethren! So much hatred inside of you, I don't get where it comes from.

I agree with all of this. One thing that's always bothered me is that the Punjabi Sikh community (which I'm a part of) is always quick to show their disgust with how Sikhs are portrayed, or whenever someone brings up a point about something that contravenes the message of Sikhi. Yet, I'd say a large majority of these people, also drink on a regular basis, swear, and act in ways that can be portrayed as unsavory... and still think they represent Sikhism positively.

It's too bad Summys messages always get lost in his antagonism and his 'hatred' for bhangra, as sometimes he does have a point.

Last comment on this, hopefully what Akshay Kumar says is true:

http://www.dnaindia.com/report.asp?newsid=1171331

Akshay Kumar says that he is a Sardar at heart and that is why portraying the role of a Sardar in his forthcoming release Singh is Kinng which will be no less than a cakewalk for him.

?I?m and will always be a Sardar at heart. I know the customs and it wasn?t difficult for me to play the role. In fact I was happy playing someone who is so true to his words and is extremely straight forward,? he says.

?You know I heard something once. When you are in Bombay and it?s very late at night, take the taxi that is driven by a Sardar. You will reach home very safely. We need to nurture this respect. In any way, we should have respect towards all communities,? he says. The star also didn?t forget to take a dig at people who take pride in ?Sardar jokes?. ?People sometimes just poke fun at Sardars without even understanding what the meaning of a Sardar is. It is cruel at times but somehow most jokes are made on them,? he ended.

 

[Jeeti]

Summy, there is no question you give a valuable perspective as a true Sikh...but I really do not see why you can't leave the personal insults aside when you are constructing an argument...There is no need to individually call out people in your arguments..ESPECIALLY when you begin speculating as to their religious devotion...there is no need in your previous argument to make statements like...YOU PROBABLY EAT MEAT AND DRINK...if you don't know that for sure, then do not assume anything...You make great points but your posts constantly come off as being disrespectful....you could have just as easily made a great argument without mentioning anyone's name.

 

[sulmoney]

vic is hindu...true fact
Moderator hat: And Summy, we do appreciate you being here, and we respect your viewpoints, but please refrain from personal (and in this case, erroneous) attacks on someone

 

[HarmanSingh]

This movie and music video is a horrible representation of Sikhi, and anyone who watches it is just supporting the exploitation of Punjab and Sikhi by the mainstream media. In fact, Bollywood in general is disgusting in its portrayal of Punjab and Sikhi and we are paying to have people hijack our culture and manipulate it however they choose by watching the movies and TV shows.

That being said, I agree with Summy in that our community needs to take a long look at ourselves before we blame others for the way we are treated. It is easy to point the finger at someone else and say they are exploiting us, but what are we doing to prevent that? Or are we just feeding into the stereotypes with our actions?

Bhangra music as a whole is not all destructive, and I can give you thousands of positive songs to show you otherwise Summy, but the way we have minimized it to a certain standard of drinking and fighting is our community?s downfall. And the bhangra community lives right up to these expectations, as competitions have become nothing more than 3 day drinking binges and dirty bolis topped off with some post-competition trash talk and disrespect via teams who hide behind fake usernames.

Bhangra itself is not the problem; it is the fact that ALL our culture has become is bhangra that hurts us. Punjabi culture is about a lot more than dancing, and until we realize we are more than that, we will continue to be portrayed in that way by the media.

?Not that it's "okay", but movies that feed off of religions including Hinduism/Islam/Christianity/Judaism etc. come out all the time, but with no intention of hatred/prejudice, I don't think this is of the worst in that batch...?

But here is the difference Pooja, when a minority group is constantly being portrayed in a negative light by the majority group, it is something that needs to be looked at. Sikhs, both in Hollywood and Bollywood are portrayed in a very negative light. For the majority population of Christians in America to make fun of themselves is different, as people do not see one interpretation of Christians and base their entire view of them off of that one encounter. However, with a minority group like the Sikhs, all it takes is one instance of negativity for people to assume all Sikhs are like that. I mean look at what happened after 9/11, it took a small number of Muslims for white America to make the assumption that all Muslims are terrorists as that was one of the few encounters many white Americans had with Islam. The same is true for Sikhs- it just takes 1 movie like this for people to think this is what Sikhi is about, just as it takes just 1 Sikh at a competition with a pimped out khanda necklace to get pissy drunk and harass some girl for people to think all Sikhs are like that. In the world we live in, minority groups become a monolith. It becomes ?blacks? ?Muslims? ?Sikhs?, etc. and people fail to take each individual as they are.

Also Summy, I respect some of what you say, but you proclaim yourself a ?real true gursikh? yet that statement is so filled with ahankar it is silly. Gursikhs do not go around calling themselves Gursikhs, they let their actions speak for themselves. A Gursikh begs to be the dust of a Sant?s feet, he/she does not say I am the only true Gursikh, and I will assume the rest of you are fake.

And for you to call out Vic like that is completely uncalled for. You can make a point without attacking individuals, and if you do, your argument will be much more effective. And as you were shown, you were far too quick to jump to assumptions as Vic is actually a Hindu. Remember, ?Nindhak Nindhaa kar mal dhovi, ouha malabakh maeiadharee?.

 

[Sher]

Summy, I do agree with some of your points about people straying away from Sikhi, however, you do seem to generalize alot about bhangra. My team only dances to the culturally rich songs (as opposed to the daru songs). I also know many Gursikhs that do bhangra:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=ARSHlhKgwiA



I'm not sure about what Vic meant by the comment, but when I read it I thought he was saying that the video is offensive to him, even though he is a Hindu. And yea, as Pooja said, it is written in many places that we must show love and respect to everyone.

 

[Saleem]

I am going to take this opportunity to lighten the mood and also introduce one of my favorite web-comics (only go here if you're a geek, sorry):

http://xkcd.com/385/

it reinforces what Harman says, that for a minority, one person's actions are often generalized to the entire population. we've often discussed this at the masjid for how we should make an effort to be good to others, since it is often generalized in other people's minds on how all Muslims are.

 

[HarmanSingh]

By the way, everyone who wants to call themselves Punjabi should check this out, Manmohan Waris sings about what every Punjabi should know about their culture..because if we don't even know who we are, how can we expect other people to portray us correctly?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TFl9odS1Kvc&feature=related

 

[Summy]

"Bhangra itself is not the problem; it is the fact that ALL our culture has become is bhangra that hurts us"

See Harman, Im mixed on you. You hype up the Pistons as if they are one of the greatest teams in history, which shows a lack of judgment, then you make a post like you just did, and it shows that your actually a good guy. haha.

First off, it was not an insult, and the fact that I said it like 3 times obviously didnt come through. Get one thing straight, I am NEVER mad when I write any of my posts. It comes out like that, because when you read my posts, you feel as if it is a judmental tone, but actually, I am a soft spoken guy. The reason why I said that is because, not only here, but on POL, so called "sikhs" are really making religiously following sikhs quite shameful. Harman, the problem with what I have is when people assoicate me with other "sikhs". Well, what makes you a sikh? The Guru Granth Sahib Jee, our 11th guru says what? That Amrit is a right of passage. It is how one becomes a sikh. Before that, you are not a sikh. You are either trying to achieve salvation to get to that point, or simply not a sikh. Guru Jee doesnt view people that cut their hair, drink, eat meat, live an impure life as sikhs. So, when you are thinking that I am judging someone as being a "lesser" sikh, I am not. In fact, all that I am stating is that he/she is not a sikh. Believe me, those who I believe are sikh, are not great by any means. There are some gursikhs that I believe forget the message of sikhi and are lost. The rare khalistani, and the egotistical bunch, those people I believe are lost. However, I cannot say that he or she is not a sikh. The interpretation of sikhi becomes personal, and we may differ from a philosophical viewpoint. But the fact that I called someone who cuts their hair, and lives impurely not sikh, is not a judgement procaliming that I am better, it is a simple acknlowedgement of I am what you are not. Its not ahankar, its a humble truth. Ahankar in sikhi terms is if I judge another person who has taken amrit, and say, well he/she is not a sikh. Theres a bit of a difference.

If it come across as a personal insult, I did not mean so, and I apologize. But really my tone was more of a educational rather than a judgemental tone.

-------------------------------
I cannot begin to point the finger at bollywood, when my own community, sikhs are more harmful to punjabi culture, than any outside influence. You know, when a bond is strong, its hard to break. The fact is that, bhangra music, like Harman said is all that punjabi culture has come to be about. The protrayl of sikhs is not an issue for me in bollywood.


Now, im not a dweeb, I really and truly understand the appeal of bhangra, and actually listen to it occasionally, but to the extent that it is been popularized is extremely alarming. Lets face it, Bhangra, appeals to the younger generation, who naturally, will be more involved with things such as alcohol, love, having fun etc... But when the appeal of bhangra transcends just basic appeal, and moves into actually influencing the youth, that is what is scary. Bhangra music, yes, does include lyrics that arent offensive.

But if you are perpetuating a type of music, and sub-culture, that is harzedous to the overall culture what does that say. Does that mean dont dance bhangra, no. Does that mean, dont listen to bhangra, no. Its about having the priorities of the community straight.


WHAT IS MORE UPSETTING?


We get upset, when we see a drunk stumbling sardar in the films. Then we see the crowd laughing away, at this seemingly drunk stumbling sikh man.

however,

we do NOT get upset, when we hear things like this in a bhangra song: desi jatt nu balaat daru charr gaye, ne galliyaa chh koom da firaay...

The imgainery is almost exactly the same. Instead of the crowd laughing, it is people dancing to that music. The worst part is, we cannot claim this as ignorance. Like Harman said, you get sikh protrayed in a negative light, and it can send a wrong message about all of us. Thats ignorance by the white people. But what about when sikhs/ punjabis dance to the music that are actually downgrading themselves?


Its just not a sikh issue. Many bhangra songs sing about Punjabis and drinking, lack of morals etc... Which effects sikhs, hindus and muslims.

Harman, you may be able to find me 1000 songs that oppose what i said above, but I bet you, I could find you 3 times as much that perpetuates the negative sterotypes of sikhs.



The fact is, dont oppose bollywood because of its negative sterotypes on sikhs. Yeah I hate it, and I cant stand it, but I am desensitized to it. If my own community has been pumping out a sub-culture that is bhangra that has been insulting to sikhs/punjabis for decades, then why would I possibly get upset if Bollywood does it?

I hope people understand the dilemma and the problems surrounding this issue.

 

[Saleem]

Summy,

I agree that Bhangra is not a perfect representation of Punjabi culture. More so with modern songs, Bhangra songs are often glamorized and diluted from the original beauty of the culture to a couple key tenets (drinking, love, girls, cruising around town, and recursively singing about bhangra). It's a shame. And I don't know if it's the audience driving the new songs or the new songs driving the audience.

What I do know is that in this topic, we are discussing the new movie, its portrayal of Sikhs, and how it is seriously getting outta hand, so let's not all digress (me included). We can split off and discuss the pitfalls of Bhangra in another topic (for readability's sake, please).

Thanks,
Saleem

 

[imakhilyou37]

Lol. I don't think it's just Sikhism tho...
I mean no one got offended by that Hare Ram Hare Krishna song in bhool bhulaiya right?
That was probably the most random and disrespectful song ive ever heard lol...

Quality/content doesn't matter to much anymore guys. Bollywood is goin downnn fast in my opinion.
I guess we'll judge this vid when it comes out tho.

 

[Summy]

Saleem, I think the topic is relevent.

The connection is valid. What is being arugued is that some people feel this is a negative protrayl of sikhs, the movie. Well, what myself is saying, and others, is that, Bhangra is increasingly negative to sikhs and punjabis, and therefore, if that is acceptable, the actions of bollywood should be as well.

The negative aspects of bhangra is actually what justifies sterotypes by bollywood. All that is being said is that if Punjabi music, justifies and promotes drinking, disrespect to women, naashaa, unacceptable behaviour, and assuming that bhangra music is the main cultural export of punjab (which it is); then when the same things in Bhangra songs are seen in Bollywood films, the finger should be pointed at ourselves, by ourselves, and then when can be critical of the bollywood industry.

So I think the mainstream protryal of sikhs in this film, should not be offensive, because the mainstream protrayl of sikhs/ punjabis in bhangra songs are worst. If we are not offended by the lyrics in bhangra (the majority of lyrics, yes I realize the good does exist) then we should be promoting the protrayl of sikhs in bollywood, because if that becomes more popular, it is better for the sikh population than what we are doing for ourselves.

So I believe the connection is valid. In my opinion. Hey, I could be wrong. I think I was wrong once, when I was a kid, cant remember what it felt like, yeah, but you know, it can happen again.

Take Care,
Summinder Singh




















calm down it was a joke.

 

[Somi]

you guys seriously trying to argue this
Songs are songs. Bollywood is Bollywood
we make them tie into our culture...

if people think its so negative to their culture HONESTLY, do not listen to them
personally I try to avoid listening to any songs that have 'allah' 'khuda' 'Ali' any Islami words. or watch any movies against Islam/Muslim...n proud too
if you are offended then stop, but you cant honestly argue and win...its a personal issue solve it on your own

 

[Mukandpuria]

I am Hindu Punjabi Khatri straight up.....but I relate myself more to my culture than my religion. Summy I think you bring up a valid point that we as people have to see how we display our selves, before we blame other people. If a group of Vegans happen to be Hindu and go to a town where no one has seen Hindus before, they will naturally build the connection that all Hindus are Vegans.(bad example i know but best i can come up with right now). We need to be careful of what we do becuase it will easily be connected with our religion or the region where we are from(in many cases out caste to). We try to say we are open minded but everyone steotypes and generalizes, and when pissed will easily blame the person's religion or caste. But at the same time Bollywood displaying Sikhism in an incorrect way adds a lot to the problem. Think about all those Indians who do not have a majority of Sikhs present in their villages or cities for example down south or far west of India. They will view Sikhism as the media show it. I strongly believe that the media influences our culture greatly. and If the Bollywood movies are showing Sadars to be people who are slow, dumb, arragent, then people will start to associate that with their religion or region, which is Sikhism.

A prime example is my college. we have international students attend my college, and one of them is Sikh, He has a pugg and is proud to be Sikh. But hes was raised in Dehli and loves Bollywood and jokes around about Sikhi's being slow or "bara baj gay." I don't think he finds any offense at all to any of this and just jokes with it. Its almost as if the media has told him to take his religion lightly and if other make fun of sadars or puggs, ghuttis, or what ever to laugh along.

Another example was a whitewashed kid who goes to my school, Hes Sikh and when we were at a party he was talking to a Hindu Punjabi, and told him "Yea i am Sikh, I am a real Punjabi unlike you" and the guy responded with "yea well Hindus created you." The Sikh guys was like "yea your right." and laughed about it. Both being increasingly uneducated about their culture and religion and in my eyes stupid as shit.

What i am trying to get at is that there are some Sikhs out there that are not cultured or are not aware of common sense statements like "Punjabi are people from Punjab and has nothing to do with the religion" and likewise their are some Hindus who do not understand they need to be carefully and understand the sensitivity of religion and not just run there mouth. Its basically all stereotypical shit that the kids learn from the media or friends who get it from the media. Television has an impact on everyones life, and example is people going around saying "thats what she said." Television is catchy and people uncounciously learn from it.

If kids don't get their knowledge from their parents then its the media that will teach them the culture and from what i have seen Media is F***** up and very bias

 

[Summy]

Ahbishek,

I guess I know what your saying. I think there is more a disconnect between people born in the west and people born back in India. Yeah, I completely get what your saying. My father's best friend, and someone I looked at like a father was hindu. Those of us who were born in punjab understand the difference between punjabi and religion. People who are born in the west might not get it. They usually assoicate sikhism with punjab, which is faulty.

Quick story, one of my best friends is hindu-punjabi. It was me him and another guy, another amritdhari, born and raised in Delhi, studied in Mumbai. So, this really ignorant hindu delhi-ite, who has never been to india, cant speak the language you know the type... says to the hindu punjabi, who was born and raised in punjab, that i dont get you, your punjabi, but you claim your hindu. We all started laughing. Then, turned to my Sikh friend saying that, well your more punjabi than the hindu guy. He said "i only have family there, I was never raised there, or anything like that"... she responds with, well you must be punjabi because your sikh.

I understand the ignorance. I just feel like it perpetuated more by the people than the media.

I think bhangra took off, and many people saw it as a gateway into the education of punjab.

Punjab has SO much to offer, even pre-47. The history, the art, the religious experiences. I mean there are some religious figures that sikh, hindus and muslims all follow, and all pray too, and you see this connection and this bond. The art is ridicolous. The poetry, the lifestyle, the why each religion meshed with each other. the commanilities of the land.

You hope with bhangra, people would remember this more, but that wasnt the case. bhangra overshadowed this. nobody knows about our famous artists, our poets, our culture, 1919, etc... Thats what is depressing, is that, by overshadowing OTHER aspects of the culture, bhangra has created a sub culture. This is what I try to get across. That no longer are second generation indians following punjabi culture, that comprises all of these things, they follow a sub-culture that surrounds the values, and notions of bhangra. I think in addition to the rest, bhangra would be great.

If you had bhangra shows, that included cultural displays, I think the two mesh together, but its when one become so completely dominate is what hurts.


The ignorance shown by Bollywood, speaks to our lack of self respect. We didnt respect our culture enough to export it to the rest of the world, and when the one thing that promtoes drinking, smoking, and other horrible acts is re-itterated by an outside media source, we blow up. We have no right to. If we blow up, it should be at ourselves.


Good Conversation,
Summinder Singh Dhaliwal

 

[ranjit singh]

.

 

[gabroo_punjabi]

That video was the most disgusting thing I've seen come out of India. And yes, I did sit through Dosti.

To commodify the Sikh religion and its most powerful symbol into a vehicle for marketability and consumption only proves the ways in which Sikhs and Punjabis are treated as minorities in India, in the worst way possible.

Well, unforunately, your wrong here. The biggest enemies to Sikhs, are ourselves. We complain about how we are protrayed in bollywood. As drinking, jokers that walk around with no better purpose. Well, look at bhangra, our main cultural export from our land. It promotes drinking, naashaa, dancing, ignorance towards women etc... everything that is protrayed in bollywood. In fact, I would have to say, bollywood protrays sikhs better than, bhangra does.

It seems people give bhangra the permission slip, because it comes from Punjab.


Sikhs biggest arguments are within ourselves. Nihangs, Nirankari`s, etc... Nobody can get along with nobody. We want to point the finger at bollywood, and say LOOK AT WHAT MAINSTREAM CULTURE IS DOING TO US. Yet, what they promote is a water down version of what we release in bhangra music.

THis is not a rant against bhangra, that can continue if you want. I hope the catchy beat, and the memorable verses continue. BUt to sit there and critisize the mainstream india for how sikhs are taken advantage of... well, I wish we had a leg to stand on first, I wish we had some sort of morality coming out of punjab to sit there and say we dont deserve it.

We do ourselves more of a disservice than any bollywood movie or promotion would ever.
--------------------

And Vic, who are you kidding, laughing because a hindu guy is protraying a sikh... Your not even a sikh. This is not an insult, this is our religious way. You havent even taken amrit, cant follow the rules of the khalsa, probably dont even know how to naam jaap, or what it is... You have cut you hair, probably eat meat and drink, and call yourself a sikh. Have you even read Guru Jee in gurmukhi....

Again, not an insult, this is our religious definition of what a sikh is. NO person is born a sikh. You become a sikh through religious baptism, called amrit sanchar. When you take amrit, you vow not to cut your hair, as Guru Gobind Singh Jee said, it is as offensiveable as incest. So you sit there are critisize a hindu guy for playing a sikh character, but your critisism is funnier than your ignorance. Your not even close to a sikh. Forget real sikhs, any person with the basic knowledge of sikhi, would laugh at comment.

So on behalf of real, true gursikhs, the way guru gobind singh jee intended us to be, not the way max macuilliffe, and the white people in the west who believe religion is what you born into or loosley follow... dont speak on behalf of sikhs. If you call yourself a sikh, but cant even respect the words of our Guru, then your not a sikh. Look it up. You`ll find it in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and if you want to learn how to naam jaap, as every sikh should do throughout the day according to the rehat maryada, check out the Dasam Granth.

Thanks.
Summinder Singh

Summy, in defense of vic just because you cut you're hair or eat meat does not make u less of a sikh then a person who eats meat and doesn't cut their hair.... maybe i don't know how to naam jap or i havent read guru ji's gurbani but i still live by and respect his morals and teachings and thats what it all comes down too... i infact know a lot of sikhs that are amrit shak but still lie, cheat, steal, eat meat and are the most corrupted people in the community that have no respect for what sikhism truly teaches, and so you would call them true sikhs just because of their appearence....? lol even mr.burns can grow long metres of beard, where a pagg, become amrit shak, and wear the 5 k's but would u then believe him to be a sucha insaan??? Yes bhangra has some dark spots and talks about and premotes violence and drugs from time to time but always talks about culture, never religion so try not to get those mixed up. And please get off BTF i dunt think anyone wants to read those essays of yours nemore... ur just one confused kid.... *removed*.

Moderator's note: Please refrain from making physical threats.

 

[Chidiya]

There is ALWAYS going to be misunderstandings between all religions..thats just the way of life and the main reason is the stupidity of some people. Sadly, we're not going to wake up one day and everyone is going to love each other disregarding race, culture, religion and so forth. Just like Abhishek I am also a Hindu Punjabi Khatri. A LOT of times, when I tell people that I?m Hindu Punjabi..they?re like ?Ohk, so who is Punjabi? Your mom or dad?? And as someone mentioned earlier, if we don?t get the basis of our culture (not necessarily our religion) the only source we have is media.

Also, what is this ?bara baj gaye? I?ve heard it being mentioned a while back on POL but don?t know what that means. Can someone elaborate on it please?

 

[HarmanSingh]

That video was the most disgusting thing I've seen come out of India. And yes, I did sit through Dosti.

To commodify the Sikh religion and its most powerful symbol into a vehicle for marketability and consumption only proves the ways in which Sikhs and Punjabis are treated as minorities in India, in the worst way possible.

Well, unforunately, your wrong here. The biggest enemies to Sikhs, are ourselves. We complain about how we are protrayed in bollywood. As drinking, jokers that walk around with no better purpose. Well, look at bhangra, our main cultural export from our land. It promotes drinking, naashaa, dancing, ignorance towards women etc... everything that is protrayed in bollywood. In fact, I would have to say, bollywood protrays sikhs better than, bhangra does.

It seems people give bhangra the permission slip, because it comes from Punjab.


Sikhs biggest arguments are within ourselves. Nihangs, Nirankari`s, etc... Nobody can get along with nobody. We want to point the finger at bollywood, and say LOOK AT WHAT MAINSTREAM CULTURE IS DOING TO US. Yet, what they promote is a water down version of what we release in bhangra music.

THis is not a rant against bhangra, that can continue if you want. I hope the catchy beat, and the memorable verses continue. BUt to sit there and critisize the mainstream india for how sikhs are taken advantage of... well, I wish we had a leg to stand on first, I wish we had some sort of morality coming out of punjab to sit there and say we dont deserve it.

We do ourselves more of a disservice than any bollywood movie or promotion would ever.
--------------------

And Vic, who are you kidding, laughing because a hindu guy is protraying a sikh... Your not even a sikh. This is not an insult, this is our religious way. You havent even taken amrit, cant follow the rules of the khalsa, probably dont even know how to naam jaap, or what it is... You have cut you hair, probably eat meat and drink, and call yourself a sikh. Have you even read Guru Jee in gurmukhi....

Again, not an insult, this is our religious definition of what a sikh is. NO person is born a sikh. You become a sikh through religious baptism, called amrit sanchar. When you take amrit, you vow not to cut your hair, as Guru Gobind Singh Jee said, it is as offensiveable as incest. So you sit there are critisize a hindu guy for playing a sikh character, but your critisism is funnier than your ignorance. Your not even close to a sikh. Forget real sikhs, any person with the basic knowledge of sikhi, would laugh at comment.

So on behalf of real, true gursikhs, the way guru gobind singh jee intended us to be, not the way max macuilliffe, and the white people in the west who believe religion is what you born into or loosley follow... dont speak on behalf of sikhs. If you call yourself a sikh, but cant even respect the words of our Guru, then your not a sikh. Look it up. You`ll find it in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji, and if you want to learn how to naam jaap, as every sikh should do throughout the day according to the rehat maryada, check out the Dasam Granth.

Thanks.
Summinder Singh

Summy, in defense of vic just because you cut you're hair or eat meat does not make u less of a sikh then a person who eats meat and doesn't cut their hair.... maybe i don't know how to naam jap or i havent read guru ji's gurbani but i still live by and respect his morals and teachings and thats what it all comes down too... i infact know a lot of sikhs that are amrit shak but still lie, cheat, steal, eat meat and are the most corrupted people in the community that have no respect for what sikhism truly teaches, and so you would call them true sikhs just because of their appearence....? lol even mr.burns can grow long metres of beard, where a pagg, become amrit shak, and wear the 5 k's but would u then believe him to be a sucha insaan??? Yes bhangra has some dark spots and talks about and premotes violence and drugs from time to time but always talks about culture, never religion so try not to get those mixed up. And please get off BTF i dunt think anyone wants to read those essays of yours nemore... ur just one confused kid thats on a road too some heavy duty ass whoping.....

Harvy, I gotta disagree with you man. If you have not read Gurbani or done naam japp, how do you know what the morals and teachings of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji are? Someone can tell you what they are all they want, but until you actually do Naam Jaap and experience the Gurbani yourself, it is hard to truly understand the power or the importance of Gurbani.

Taking Amrit is about more than wearing a pugh, it is an entire experience in which you commit to controling kam, krodh, lobh, moh, ahankar and commit yourself to living a life as prescribed in the Guru Granth Sahib. So if a person is Amritdhari but blatantly disrespects the basic tenants of Sikhi, then they are not truly respecting the Amrit which they took.

Essentially, it is necessary to keep your hair and not drink alcohol/smoke/do drugs to be a Sikh, but it is not sufficient. That is a starting point...the easy part. The hard part is truly LIVING the life of a Sikh, not just dressing the part.

 

[Ashveer]

Chidiya, this is a copy/paste.


People usually associate BARAH BAJ GAYE (It's 12 '0' clock) with Sardars (Sikhs). It is a remark which means that they go into a 'mad' mood at twelve o' clock and start acting crazy and do all sorts of crazy things. We even say this dialogue to anybody who acts really foolish at any point of time [Ashveer's note: this ties in with 'sardar jokes]. But not many of us are aware of the facts behind the origin of this dialogue. Here is a brief version of these facts:

"This is about the period when India was under the subjugation of the Afghans, the Mughals and the Turks. It was a habit of the marauders to loot the masses (mainly Hindus), take the spoils of war and along with them take away all their women for their pleasure. The only people who stood against these people were the Sardars. With 'guerilla' tactics, they attacked the Muslim camps and liberated the Hindu women from the clutches. The usual time of such attacks was either at noon, or midnight. The attacks were so ferocious, that the Muslims began dreading the expected attacks of the Sikhs at 12 o' clock, midnight or noon".
It was these people who coined the phrase that "Sardaron ke barah baj gaye".

 

[Meistro]

Dear Mr Summy,

You have great points but you shouldnt be so mean.

Love,
Your friendly neighbourhood meistro

P.S. Rangla Punjab Sada Rangla Punjab