Rap music is...

[Summy]

rap music is garbage. the stupidest type of music ever made. degrading to women, african americans and other people. i find a lo of people who find that mindless bullshit of any entertainment are those who live in a fantasy world and believe they can somehow identify with the lyrics when the artist's themselves are shitting on everyone.

its funny. what does rap do? it promotes the degradation of black females, and promotes things like jewerelly, cars, etc.. will drug life and violence is promoted. People who suffer from violence and drug life? Pro-dominantly miniorites. People who benefit from the promotion of cars, jewels etc.. Rich Suburban White dudes.

Rap, is a vicious circle that includes putting down miniorities and putting more cash in the white man's hands.

"oh and Summy, I doubt you have ever even heard real hip hop and probably pass most commercial rap on the radio to judge your perception on hip hop"- Varun

ohhh dude, your so cool, you listen to the UNDERGROUND STUFF... ahhh man, yeah, your defintely in the minor few that understand rap eh? that really get it? yeahhh man, life is hard eh? all these other people that listen to rap, mannn they aint like you kid, they dont know what real rap is...

hahahahahaha

Commercial or not commercial I can tell you when I smell shit. There is not one educated person, with any sort of morality that would enjoy the majority of Jay Z's, Nas's or any other douche bag's songs.

 

[Gugu]

rap music is garbage. the stupidest type of music ever made. degrading to women, african americans and other people. i find a lo of people who find that mindless bullshit of any entertainment are those who live in a fantasy world and believe they can somehow identify with the lyrics when the artist's themselves are shitting on everyone.

its funny. what does rap do? it promotes the degradation of black females, and promotes things like jewerelly, cars, etc.. will drug life and violence is promoted. People who suffer from violence and drug life? Pro-dominantly miniorites. People who benefit from the promotion of cars, jewels etc.. Rich Suburban White dudes.

Rap, is a vicious circle that includes putting down miniorities and putting more cash in the white man's hands.

"oh and Summy, I doubt you have ever even heard real hip hop and probably pass most commercial rap on the radio to judge your perception on hip hop"- Varun

ohhh dude, your so cool, you listen to the UNDERGROUND STUFF... ahhh man, yeah, your defintely in the minor few that understand rap eh? that really get it? yeahhh man, life is hard eh? all these other people that listen to rap, mannn they aint like you kid, they dont know what real rap is...

hahahahahaha

Commercial or not commercial I can tell you when I smell shit. There is not one educated person, with any sort of morality that would enjoy the majority of Jay Z's, Nas's or any other douche bag's songs.

Just when I thought this guy was done making the ignorant posts he used to make on POL, heeeeeee's baaaaaaaaaaaack!

 

[Summy]

Explain the ignorance. I didnt insult anyone, but merely stated my opinion. The fact that you call my opinion ignorant without any basis, is the definition of ignroance.

Dont be upset because I dont like rap, realize, that some people can see pass the fasade.

 

[ranjit singh]

haha...summy...your stupidity and ignorance towards hip-hop is a reflection of your stupidity and ignorance towards everything else you preach about on this forum..your oversimplification and generalization of hip-hop isn't even worth commenting on

as far as "There is not one educated person, with any sort of morality that would enjoy the majority of Jay Z's, Nas's or any other douche bag's songs", i will leave you with a video from Dr. Micahael Eric Dyson, one of hip-hop's preeminent scholars, who is a professor at Georgetown University, received his PHd from Princeton University, and is an ordained Baptist minister (obviously, the achievements of an uneducated and immoral human being)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHyRbN6-4wE

 

[HarmanSingh]

rap music is garbage. the stupidest type of music ever made. degrading to women, african americans and other people. i find a lo of people who find that mindless bullshit of any entertainment are those who live in a fantasy world and believe they can somehow identify with the lyrics when the artist's themselves are shitting on everyone.

its funny. what does rap do? it promotes the degradation of black females, and promotes things like jewerelly, cars, etc.. will drug life and violence is promoted. People who suffer from violence and drug life? Pro-dominantly miniorites. People who benefit from the promotion of cars, jewels etc.. Rich Suburban White dudes.

Rap, is a vicious circle that includes putting down miniorities and putting more cash in the white man's hands.

"oh and Summy, I doubt you have ever even heard real hip hop and probably pass most commercial rap on the radio to judge your perception on hip hop"- Varun

ohhh dude, your so cool, you listen to the UNDERGROUND STUFF... ahhh man, yeah, your defintely in the minor few that understand rap eh? that really get it? yeahhh man, life is hard eh? all these other people that listen to rap, mannn they aint like you kid, they dont know what real rap is...

hahahahahaha

Commercial or not commercial I can tell you when I smell shit. There is not one educated person, with any sort of morality that would enjoy the majority of Jay Z's, Nas's or any other douche bag's songs.

Really Summy? There is some uneducated, ignorant guy you support named Barack Obama who said himself he enjoys Jay Z's music and that he listens to other rap also.

 

[Summy]

baalatiyoo, gal iddha, ke mainu puttah majority bundey jeerray especially punjabi hondeyaa umreeka yaa canadaa chh , ohh kalayaa dey chumchaa hondeyaa, es kar ke, mainu puttah, topic bahot sensitive hai jee, atay, lapravah bun ke, sunno kuch nahi milnaayaah... i understand the plight of the punjabi youth in the west ahah.

par unno chaad ve...

firstly, regarding Barak Obama, I wonder if his main strong hold being black miniorities would be happy if they heard that huge cultural figures like Jay Z werent accepted by Obama, and that the misconception of his being a patsy to white america wouldnt be verified.

Secondly,

You guys really want to defend morally a type of music that glorifies violence, drug trade, degradation of women, etc? The best excuse you can give is hey man, it is what it is, but I still like it. Do I know there are some good artists out there? Yes, do I know that the majority of those people arent successful yes. Kinda like what that phD said... Whats passed down at the top of the record label, ie- white america, are not socially conscious music, noo... that would be WAY TOO PROGRESSIVE, and after all the majority of youth be it black or indian, just want to have fun and cuz give a rats ass about morals...

Having said that.. you tell me how you would like me to respond to you... It will be like choose your own adventure book alright... you choose...here are your options

1) I could go into a rant about the rise in gun related violence, and deaths, since the onset of popular rap music, in inner cities where the majoirty of the population is black.

2) I could divulge into amazing lyrics from your heros such as:

Understand why y'all nigga is mad at me
All the cars and bitches livin' lavishly
Who could flip a record company from half a key

Got my chick in D & V At this very second runnin' your plate
2 knocks on your door, One gun in your face


Snatched the phone get a grip thug you supposed to be tough
What you telling the cop huh? I'm taking your money and drugs
In the underworld we take care of beef ourself

- The artistic, beautiful inspiring Jay Z.

--

I could go into those lyrics, and we get into morality... IF YOU REALLY WANT TO..



3) Or I could go into groups that get on tv for real stances, and not for shock value like that phD.... Groups like the NAACP, or the ASALH, who have continously come down on rap music for their negative lyrics and horrible values...

Imagine this, your an inner city black child. Your growing up not like the majority of us with two parents, and a well off house, but a single mother, who provides the best she can. Your friends, and your friends friends, are all listening to the latest rap track. You as an impressionable teen her, bitches this and that... your mother, is she not what they are reffering too?.... LETS SAY, THE MOTHER TAUGHT THE CHILD THAT THE N WORD WAS A HORRIBLE WORD. HORRIBLE CONATATIONS, IT WAS YELLED AT, BURNED AND IMPRINTED INTO BODIES OF AFRICAN AMERICANS... YELLED AT, WHILE THEY WOULD LITERALLY MURDER AND TEAR APART CHILDREN'S LIMBS JUST BECAUSE OF THEIR SKIN COLOUR.... LETS SAY THAT THE MOTHER DID SOMETHING RESPONSIBLE AND TAUGHT THEIR CHILD THIS...


YOU POP YOUR CD INTO AND YOU HEAR AFRICAN AMERICANS CALLING EACH OTHER THE SAME WORD... WHAT DO YOU BEGIN TO THINK ABOUT YOURSELF? YOUR OWN VALUE? NOW IMAGINE THATS A YOUNG BLACK FEMALE... HOW EMPOWERING IS THAT?



Maybe thats why groups like the NAACP, have done this like this when it comes to Jay Z:

http://www.rapbasement.com/news/jay-z/jay-z-gets-scrutined-by-naacp-chairman-pioneering-rappers-bury-n-word.html


---------------


Im not saying ALL rap music is bad. So called "conscious" rappers like Kanye West and Common, continuely to use the N word. Kanye West made this huge fuss about "blood" diamonds, but he is the self proclaimed "louis vuitton don"... I wonder where kanye west thinks those things come from?
----


The Erykah Badu's, Lauryn Hill's, even though they are not rap, thats what people should be listening to, empowering music..


but its like bhangra music... who gives a fuck about empowering the youth right? lets just superman that ho...

 

[Gugu]

Summy, again you've got it alllll wrong. The thing is you're arguing with the wrong crowd here. Your argument would be valid if we were "supermanin that ho" on here. That, we all regard as stupidity. That's not what hip-hop is to most of us. The people we listen to, and their specific songs we choose to listen to do empower the youth.

I can go on and give you thousands of verses when an mc wasn't disrespectful to women, didn't mention drugs, violence, prostitution, but had a positive meaning behind his/her lyrics. But that'd be pointless because you already know that there are plenty of artists that make good hip-hop music with an effort to make the society better and get rid of the problems the young black youth faces. If we were sittin here promoting the average mainstream artist who raps about the things you've mentioned, then yes your argument makes sense. But like I said, nobody's promoting none of that (at least everyone but the original poster since this is the "Lollipop" thread).

As far as the N word is concerned, its something that is definitely not right but has in a way become part of the hip-hop culture. But the thing is its not used in that same context you believe its used in. It's more of a "brotherhood" thing, like Nas said, there's a difference between "nigga" and "nigger". But I already know you'll make a whole post bashing me that I even said that. To me it is an issue, but the pros of the music make up for that con.



Btw, iono bout you but I think Lauryn Hill and Erykah are as hip-hop as it gets.

 

[ranjit singh]

summy, wow, you are absolutely right, your insightful and lucid commentary on hip-hop music is truly brilliant and your grasp of hip-hop music and the surrounding culture is unparalleled. i am also amazed at how constructive, engaging, and logical your arguments are. keep up the great work!

 

[Varun]

How I feel about Summy's argument:

*I love how he feels he understands rap music and its difference from hip hop culture. The fact that he could claim Eryka Badu as non-hip hop (ever heard her love ballad to hip hop "Love of my Life") proves his ignorance.

*Obviously, he is going to hold rappers responsible for the trash that gets chosen as marketable singles and is promoted by the mass media, and not the heads of record labels, A.R. people, producers, marketing depts, and people who get paid to project an image that is profitable to an apathetic mainstream audience.

*Violence is a truth of life. As a lawyer who is meant to defend the justice and see the crime in our country, you should see that hip hop is the only reliable mainstream source to tell what life is like for the unfortunate families that live in the inner cities. There may be artistic exaggeration, but then again, you are also know for that to get your points across (Hindu Punjabi family from Nakodar...ring a bell?)

*Did not address anything of Public Enemy, Sage Francis, Anticon, Nas, Talib Kweli, Mos, Common.

*Rather than maybe asking us why we appreciate hip hop music and culture, or rationally trying to figure out our logic for liking it (regardless whether he agrees with our taste or not), Summy just played moral police, making an outlandish statement which he knew would give him attention. Very cute puttar.

God bless you though kakey. because of your post you let me outline and remind myself why i love hip hop.

 

[Kush]

K avoiding all the diversion here (though I'm only routing right back to another diversion), lol

Vick, like advised earlier, pick up a copy of Illmatic. Forget even the rest if necessary. It's hip-hop in its purest, rawest form. I love pac to death, and its so hard for him NOT to be considered good as he is so unbelievably saturated in the rap/hiphop community both through having a ridiculous amount of songs and being the ultimate gangster rapper. But Nas' scope as a lyricist can only be rivaled by the likes of KRS-1, Blackstar (I second this on whoever had them in their top lists, they are nasty), Mos Def (older. He has changed his style completely), and Immortal Tech. (probably a few others, was just trying to draw a picture).

My top 5:
1) Nasty Nas
2) Tupac
3) B.I.G. (the only person i think ever had the potential to be the greatest, unrivaled lyricist of all time)
4) Blackstar (lets me include both Talib and Mos, lol i cheated).
5) this spot is rivaled by too many artists: Lupe, KRS, Immortal, and Common

I can't help but address your posts, Summy. With no sarcasm, I must say that yes you made a very valid, and true argument. The essence of what hip-hop is has changed radically, from the days of social relevance to money, cash, and hoes. Degradation of women, glorification of violence, and support of drug trafficking are all HIGHLY present in rap music today. Though I feel this is far from the essence of true hip-hop, this is what the MAINSTREAM culture has become acustomed too: It's all "if you're not getting paid big, you're doing something wrong", or "get rich or die tryin'". It's flawed, plain and simple. With respect to all of these facts (in MAINSTREAM RAP/HIP HOP, which the PhD commented on) all one can say is "it is what it is": entertainment, entertainment entertainment; artists do what they have to in order to sell CD's and gain popularity. I'll even go as far as to agree that Barack Obama is full of shit (a presidential candidate chills out to Jay-Z's Reasonable Doubt while campaigning around the world? Gimme a break). But what you have said still represents a limited view on the grandscope of what rap and hip-hop really ARE, and this isn't suprising as at least 75% of music listeners restrict themselves to that same view.

Primarily I wish to address your comments on the use of the word n*gger. I personally have always had a strong distaste for the word, rarely if ever use it, even while rapping along to my favorite tracks, but I must support Gugu's statement 110 percent. It no longer has the same connotation it once did. The reality is that black people have taken a word of oppression and done a 180 with it. It is a term that unifies, solidifies and identifies them as a people. You hear rants about how wrong it is that the word is used so easily and by blacks themselves. I feel this is because older generations are still subject to the feelings this word elicites.

The word had an equivilence to "slave", and defied a people who were beaten, controlled, and oppressed. Yet today, people CELEBRATE and unite based on he fact that they all descend from that same people. I MYSELF get called n*gga by the majority of my black friends as it signifies a bond, or the idea of brotherhood, all stemming from the same background.

I don't know if youre familiar with who Nas is, but this man created probably one of the biggest tensions in the music industry in the past few months by attempting to release a CD titled "N*gger". Ultimately forced to backout of the proposition, he addresses this issue, including the Sharpton-born concept of BURYING the word, and created both a musical and verbal arguement in defense of the word. He stands as representation for a large majority in his support of the word and it's changed meaning.

All in all, there are those artists, like Nas, who use rap music as a passionate art form. Who, though they mention the same money, bling, and girls as everyone else, still remain true to some signficant issues and socially relevant concepts. Other artists, though not as well known, include Public Enemy, Rakim, Dead Prez, Lupe Fiasco. The reality is that "thug life" is glorified, and exaggerated in music today. But to disregard ALL of rap as "garbage" and "the stupidest music ever made" is like judging every single driver in South Florida as being shitty. Just because we have the worst statistics in the world doesn't mean every person is horrendous. And i'm not just referring to the unknown, underground artists. I'm talking artists present on the radio today, that have more to say than what is played 1000 times a day per station, iincluding Common, Talib Kweli, among many, many others.
The distinct, solid line between mainstream and real, sometimes exists within the same artist.

 

[Summy]

You know what I REALLY REALLY WILL ENJOY DOING? HANDING VARUN HIS TUTTAY ON A PLATTER...

When did I say Erykah Badu and Lauryn Hill arent hip hop? Yeah re-read the post smart guy........... I said they aren't rap, and the majroity of their stuff isnt rap. The fact that you cant understand the difference between rap and hip-hop is HALIRIOUS, almost comical, and then you sat there are tried to prove my post as faulty. Hahahaha. I accept your apology.

Why do you act as if socially conscious rap music will ever be successful. Who are you shitting on? Your not talking to someone uneducated and trying mask a rug over issues that obviously exist. When you make a CD, and the majority of the artist's song revolve around issues like that, are you actually trying to insinuate that the artists make some sort of attempt and other lyrics, but it is white america that is telling them to degrade their own community? If so, why, as a consumer would you play into that?

This whole thing of commcercial vs non-commercial is absolutely the funniest things ive ever heard. Especially within the rap liking community, the way people who have desparate needs for assoication try to proclaim their liking for rap is to claim that "hey man, i listen to the underground stuff"... hah. Are you kidding me? Talib Kwaeli and Nas, Common, they are not underground. They are extremely commercial. Did I say every single rapper does that kind of degrading of their own community. No, But if your talking about the Nas's, Jay Z's, Kanye West, Tupac, BIG... all these cultural significant icons, they are all at fault for this lack of morality that exists within the HIP HOP COMMUNITY... LEARN THE DIFFERENCE VARUN


I dont understand your insinutaion of a hindu punjabi family from Nakodar. They are family, if you think its an exaggeration of my experiences with them, I am sure you wouldnt like me to involve your family as well. So keep it quite on that front, and stick to the issue.... SERIOUSLY, where were you educated? I need to give them a call..... VIOLENCE IS A REALITY... THE OPTION... PROMOTE IT....

Are you kidding me? Rape is also a reality. Child molestation is also a reality. All of these occur as frequent as violence in inner cities but they are NEVER evulated in rap songs. Rather, when you promote a negative light onto women, and degrade their overall worth, it wouldnt be surprising if this spurred on rape as well.


---

Your soooo against the grain Varun. You cant even understand the difference between hip hop and rap, and you want to claim some sort of tightness and closeness with the rappers that release their songs. Your a stooge, everyone is a stooge who buys this music. Do you think that JayZ and Nas even went through 1/10 of what the release in their songs. Thats halirious. They shit on you, and you guys give them a hugeeee THANK YOU.....

It is truly a great artform for brainwashing the youth. And it has succeeded, your not different, your part of the masses Varun, get over yourself. Ohh and dont speak punjabi.. kakaa, not kakey, i was the only one talking hahahaha... that halirious... please dont attempt punjabi EVER again...
---


The connotation of the N word is something that I dont think can be negotiated. And, for the sake of my sanity, I wont divulge into any sort of rant on this matter, because it is absolutely horrible that rap music, and hip hop culture, can justify such a historically negative, racist, prejudice, ridicolous term, with trying to insinuate it has a different meaning. whether you change it from -er to -a, the word is based in hate, and prejudice, and it was coined to use as a device to kill and lower the african american community.

The hip hop community has no right to change the connotation. Those who suffered and died, and were tortured to the sound of that word... their sacrifice and pain cannot be justified with saying, yeah it might be the same word, but different meaning.

Just read anything from the NAACP regarding this issue... an organization that, unlike rap music, enpowers the youth and the coloured to break the shackles of oppression that include rap music which de-values the identities of miniorities everywhere.

 

[[Sher] Imran]

Top 5 Active:

1) Blackstar (Mos, Talib)
2) The Game
3) Lupe / Common
4) Nas
5) Jay Z

Top 5 all time:

1) 2pac
2) Eminem
3) Nas
4) Outkast
5) DPG

 

[Gugu]

The lack of appreciation for Wu, specifically GZA, kinda hurts me.

 

[Waleed]

Moderator's note: This is a very healthy discussion and we want this forum to be a venue that allows everyone to openly express their views. Please continue to discuss however kindly refrain from personal attacks.

 

[sulmoney]

gugu, we're hip hop soulmates haha...wu tang has been criminally under represented in this discussion...im not going to get involved in this discussion regarding everything else going on (at least not right now, im tired), but people on both sides are making valid points (including summy), but summy, you are taking the absolute side, without seeing that there are rappers who will say everything you are saying, listen to lupe fiasco's "dumb it down", one of the smartest songs from the past year (i could be wrong and it could not make my argument, but i like the song, i need some sleep haha)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1Et1siZhTk

 

[Somi]

ok I listen to rap and like most of it.
but I think every type of music has its own share of crappy music

 

[HarmanSingh]

I think there is confusion for a lot of people of what exactly Hip Hop is. Hip Hop is made of 5 elements: Rap, B-Boying, DJing, Graffiti, and Beat Boxing. So when someone professes their love to hip hop, they are professing their love of rap.

You think its impossible for socially conscious music to be on top of the charts? Is that why Public Enemy was consistently on the top of the charts during their prime? What about KRS 1, De La Soul (you probably haven?t heard music from many of the old school rappers, so I?ll list some current rappers on the top of the charts with non-degrading music): Lupe Fiasco, Common, Talib Kweli, etc. There are plenty of rappers who make music that does not degrade women and does not promote the negatives in the black community, so socially conscious music IS already successful, even though it may be hard to do so. But the thing is, people often ignore these rappers and pick a couple songs out of context and just it as an indictment on all rap.

Whether the rappers went through everything they rap about is irrelevant. It is art. It doesn?t have to be true. Why is this requirement for rap but not for rock, pop, country, movies, paintings, etc. Art does not have to be 100% based on the artist?s life.

As an Indian, you have no business telling a young black man he has no right to use the N word or not. The word has painful, deeply rooted meaning and if you are not black, you have no business using it. But you Summy, do not have the right to tell a black man who knows his family history and ancestry that he cannot take the word and use it within his community in an attempt to change the meaning. Words change over time. For black people, to use it with one another is a loving thing. For someone of another race to use it is deeply offensive and vile due to the history of the word. Just as I can go up to one a friend and say something offensive to him in a joking way, I couldn?t do that to just anyone. Within the black community it is okay, but no one else has any right to use it. Are you aware Martin Luther King Jr. privately used the N word? I?m sure you heard the controversy with Jesse Jackson?he used the N word. Both of these men understand black history and are supposed moral beacons. Tell them they cant use the word. If you want more insight into what rappers feel about the N word, now is the perfect time to listen to Nas? new album- ?Nigger?. He addresses race and this very issue throughout the album.


The negatives in rap are a symptom of problems in the inner city. They are not the cause. For you to blame a 17 year old Soulja Boy for the inner city?s problems is unbelievably simplistic and completely lets the real culprits off the hook. Ask yourself why Biggie said, ?Either you're slingin crack-rock, or you've got a wicked jump-shot?. Inner city black youth feel trapped in the ?concrete jungle? and rap is an outlet for much of the anger, pain, frustration and hope for better days. And rather than focusing on improving the schooling system, parenting, providing job opportunities and working on improving the corrupt police/legal system in the inner city, the media and politicians choose to pull a Nas quote out of context and say, ?See, the rappers are making all the trouble!? No, the trouble is far more complex than that. People put too much responsibility in the hands of young people who are starving to make money, and not enough responsibility in the hands of parents and politicians who have the ability to enact change. It is all a distraction. Recently there was a law passed in Flint Michigan which outlawed baggy pants and there is now a fine and even possible JAIL time for having loose pants. This is a clear attack on hip hop culture. Now, the funny thing is Flint is predominantly black, the city is economically troubled, and the crime rate is one of the highest in America. Do you know when they announced this legislation? Right after they laid off 30 more police officers in a city with a severe crime problem. Funny how they were able to take the news coverage off of the real issue and onto a controversy about hip hop isn?t it?

Rap is sick because AMERICA is sick.

 

[Gurvir]

rap music is bomb not all the songs are about degrading females or cars jewlery and money

 

[Gugu]

Harman, props to you for writing all that. That was a powerful post and I enjoyed it thoroughly. It's ridiculous how some people make hip-hop look like the root of all evil and this destructive beast to the youth.

Hip hop can't be a scapegoat by the higher-ups for all the crime in the community. It's like people blaming GTA for their kids committing crime, simply outrageous.

 

[ranjit singh]

It's like people blaming GTA for their kids committing crime, simply outrageous.

for all you bhangra heads, that's Grand Theft Auto the video game, not GTA bhangra. lol.

and yesterday Nas was on The Colbert Report...spoke out on fox news/summy o'reilly and performed "sly fox"..here's the footage
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZgEeofwUVo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QYR6eo_s84