Re: Modern vs Traditional Bhangra Round # 547

[Chidiya]

and vcu's routine seem to be the same lately..no? if empire isnt a bhangra team then how do they get into comps? man, all these organizers dont really care what you and i think all they care for are ticket sales. people who go to these comps to watch dont give a rats tushie about bhangra they cause about 'entertainment'. either way, im stoked to watch the vids..whether it's VCU, Empire or Boston ya feelllll me

 

[Dippy]

and vcu's routine seem to be the same lately..no? if empire isnt a bhangra team then how do they get into comps? man, all these organizers dont really care what you and i think all they care for are ticket sales. people who go to these comps to watch dont give a rats tushie about bhangra they cause about 'entertainment'. either way, im stoked to watch the vids..whether it's VCU, Empire or Boston ya feelllll me

hahahhaha "rats tushie" good one!!

 

[Varun]

I don't get the "people don't want to see bhangra, they want to see entertainment" arguement, as if bhangra itself were not entertaining?

If you want non-desi entertainment, then go to the venues that express that. There's no need to completely lash out and discourage true BHANGRA elements at a BHANGRA competition.

 

[Dhesi]

Varun: I agree, but some people on BTF need to realize that there's no need to completely lash out and discourage adaptations and entertainment at a BHANGRA (dance form) COMPETITION.

All styles should be appreciated, as all teams that do any form of bhangra still do the great things that people talk about: enticing today's youth, providing a healthy workout, tying people to their culture etc., but just it in different ways.

 

[shareef85]

If everyone does real traditional (which is also up for debate) bhangra at a competition, it tends to get repetitive. Every team is doing the same moves, just in different orders. An example might be DDA, I personally that it was a pretty good competition, but an outsider might look at that competition as boring, almost every team looked exactly the same. And let's say like 4-5 teams execute their set's almost to perfection, how do judges figure out who should win, when every routine looked virtually the same, and every team does "traditional" bhangra. Does it come down to who goes live then, just as DDA did?

I have nothing against traditional bhangra, this is an opinion that an outsider coming to a competition might express.

 

[manmeet]

Yea, Empire took it because of their stunts/gimmicky stuff. VCU didn't come with a brand new routine but were still very good. Anyone could've been able to tell that Empire would have taken it at VIBC, but given a different comp and judging panel, it coulda gone either way. Just as everyone predicted, it would depend on whether the judges wanted traditional bhangra or gimmicks/entertainment.

I personally think I would have gone with DRP over United. United had a lot of mishaps including 1 turla that almost came out (2-piece pagh), 3-4 turla becoming unpinned, phuman flying, and an outstretched sahp being dropped by a dancer. Also, I didn't feel that United was as good as United can be. The sarangi player should have been given a mic, as it was difficult to hear at times over the singing/screaming of fans. DRP was very clean as usual and I don't think that United's performance was good enough to make up for the mishaps. But VIBC and United - who knows?

The placings were very accurate with the predictions here on BTF where it was pretty much a consensus that it would be between VCU, Empire, DRP, United. I think VIBC has the worst way of selecting a line-up and I really want to know how they do it. Not to be biased, but being in Vancouver, VIBC has a lot of local talent and selecting only 1 Canadian team was weird. VIBC has their own way of selecting a line-up and I would personally love to hear what VIBC looks for. I'm not trying to bash on VIBC, but we know that certain comps look for more traditional or modern teams (i hate using those words), and recently a competition came on here and explained their method of choosing a line-up (can't remember which one but something along the lines of 2 top-tier teams and a let's give others a chance philosophy).

Ok First of all i really think the difference between modern teams and traditional teams is very different to what others think. what i believe to be traditional is thing like live boliyaan or recorded boliyaan. Modern teams have song mixes. So i really think that all of this nonsence fighting between tradition versus modern is pointless because in my opinion VCU is just as modern as DRP and Empire. Dont get me wrong i like traditional teams, TEB are amazing im just saying that somethimes modern teams have more of the wow factor

 

[Meistro]

Yeah I think the term "traditional bhangra" is misconstrued. To me a team is Traditional if they EXECUTE the moves traditionally. Thats how I personally distinguish traditional from modern.

 

[joemojoe]

its thinking like this that is gonna kill bhangra and turn it into a dance competition....

why apply to a bhangra competition and do nothing bhangra related? Its basically putting a chadra and pagg on but doing dance moves and formations.....no bhangra is attached.

i believe bhangra should be done right, and dance should be set aside for another competition......people say in north america we do "MODERN" bhangra.....theres no other way to do bhangra except traditionally. If your not doing it traditionally take off the chadra and pagg and go apply to a dance competition.

 

[m_gill88]

remember the days...when we used to dance for the FUN of it...*sigh*

 

[kinnell]

remember the days...when we used to dance for the FUN of it...*sigh*

Agreed. These arguments while valid are killing bhangra, not preserving it. Pretty much 90%+ of the teams that competed in the last decade or so can be considered in some context not bhangra for not having traditional moves, for not being live, for little things like adding variation to traditional moves. That's ridiculous. Anything not considered live traditional bhangra is all of a sudden not bhangra?

<sarcasm> Khalsa Junction? Nope, not bhangra. Three Rivers Bhangra? Sick, but not bhangra. SGPD? Music, so not bhangra. Nachdi Jawani? Played kabbadi, not bhangra. VCU? Has girls, so not bhangra. TBT? Had non-traditional instrumentalists, so not bhangra. So, we should just list the like 8-10 teams currently in the circuit that are actually bhangra... </sarcasm> I love traditional bhangra, but I love modern bhangra as well. I think both artforms should be equally supported.

Here's what I consider bhangra: 1) Majority Bhangra Music 2) Mostly Bhangra-esque Steps 3) A Bruahhh! or Two

Here's a post from a user on another forum:

THIS IS EXACTLY why i no longer love bhangra. There are too many rules and issues. Bhangra is suppose to be FUN not an exam. "Oh his pinky finger was pointing in the wrong direction, that team should never be allowed on stage!!". Who the fuck cares !!

 

[Dhesi]

Here's a post from a user on another forum:

THIS IS EXACTLY why i no longer love bhangra. There are too many rules and issues. Bhangra is suppose to be FUN not an exam. "Oh his pinky finger was pointing in the wrong direction, that team should never be allowed on stage!!". Who the fuck cares !!

hahahah what a beauty of a quote and it's bang-on. Everyone needs to take a chill-goli and figure out a way to record videos. The real crime is not team vs. team, it's when comps deprive the public of seeing the videos and release dvd's so many months later. I'm gonna buy some spy glasses that record next time.

 

[m_gill88]

I'm gonna buy some spy glasses that record next time.

genius.

 

[kinnell]

hahahah what a beauty of a quote and it's bang-on. Everyone needs to take a chill-goli and figure out a way to record videos. The real crime is not team vs. team, it's when comps deprive the public of seeing the videos and release dvd's so many months later. I'm gonna buy some spy glasses that record next time.

hahaha by chill-goli, i hope you mean chill-pill, and not referring to voluntarily taking a bullet in your head. lol i mean, im sure there are people out there who will turn to suicide if they can't watch empire's/vcu's latest routine from vibc

 

[Dhesi]

Before anyone takes such drastic measures, you can catch Empire at SoCal and VCU at Fusion. Yeowwww

 

[Meistro]

Basketball is a really fun sport. I would say the NBA is somewhat of an entertainment business. People pay lots of money to see these world-class players go head to head. Its fun to watch when everyone plays by the rules. Wouldn't it REALLY SUCK if ONE TEAM was allowed to double dribble, and travel, and stay more than 3 seconds in the key, etc.? Im sure the crowd would still love it since this team would be dominating. But how do you think other teams would feel if the ref's weren't giving this team any calls and the team took advantage of this? Same should go for bhangra....Play by the rules. Respect the artform.

 

[Danny]

Basketball is a really fun sport. I would say the NBA is somewhat of an entertainment business. People pay lots of money to see these world-class players go head to head. Its fun to watch when everyone plays by the rules. Wouldn't it REALLY SUCK if ONE TEAM was allowed to double dribble, and travel, and stay more than 3 seconds in the key, etc.? Im sure the crowd would still love it since this team would be dominating. But how do you think other teams would feel if the ref's weren't giving this team any calls and the team took advantage of this? Same should go for bhangra....Play by the rules. Respect the artform.

but then that would make Bhangra a competitive sport....i thought the whole argument here was that Bhangra is an Art form and anything can be considered art right?

i still think the best example is say for instance hip hop music: you have ur RUN DMC's and Iced T's saying Kanye and Soulja boy arent real hip hop.........but they sure do sell albums and their music is whats played in clubs/parties......i mean how many ppl would actually goto a party playing OG gangster rap (or in this case all 100% traditional bhangra) comps would go bankrupt overnight all to please that few percentile that actually know bhangra

 

[Ranjit]

That's a perfect analogy Meistro...I was going to go with being in a boxing match and kicking the other guy. The reason this is dragging out and "killing bhangra" is because you guys aren't really seeing the argument. The problem is judging at these modern competitions. First off, I think we do have a pretty good idea of what traditional bhangra is today. What we consider a traditional bhangra act is actually a fusion of different punjabi dances (luddi, sammi, jhummar etc). I don't see teams that use these elements are being traditional, I just see them as doing bhangra. To me any bhangra act should try to incoporate these steps and the emphasis on the act should be on how the actual dance is executed. Whether a team is live or not, we should judge them based on their ability to dance. I also consider VCU to be a modern team, because they have the right blend of traditional and modern elements, however I think of Empire as more of an indian dance team that uses punjabi music. And although Empire is good, these competitions have shown that they value non-dancing elements more by constantly placing them over VCU.

I understand the need for teams like Empire and I don't want to discourage people from dancing, I just think that these comps need to realize what they are doing wrong and take the emphasis away from gimmicks and tricks and put it on the best bhangra team. The crowd will still show up and they'll still have a good time, and you will actually be able to rightly call yourself a bhangra competition.

 

[faizan]

People on BTF need to get real and realize that this isn't India. The majority of the people in the States think Bhangra ("traditional") is boring. end of story. It's about business, selling tickets, putting on a show. The "love" of bhangra stuff, is too idealistic. Competitions cost a shit load of money to put on, and organizers know better than to have an all live show. If you want to sell 1/3 of your auditorium go right ahead, but no one is that stupid.

Why is everyone hating on "modern" bhangra? We in the States were born and brought up on it. It has its place in the circuit, and shunning it is also unrealistic.

Why is this argument still happening?

 

[Meistro]

but then that would make Bhangra a competitive sport....i thought the whole argument here was that Bhangra is an Art form and anything can be considered art right?

It is an artform, but it has become competitive. What about shows like "So you think you can dance?" or "dancing with the stars". You think the judges go based on crowd response? They actually have real critiques. They pin point the most minor details. Aside from competition. Look at other classical dances like bharatnatyam. That artform is so respected. From the dress, the dance, the actions. Now, im not saying i know a lot about that dance. I actually don't know anything about bharathnatyam, but I do know that when its performed, the artform is respected and performing and executing it properly is crucial in being successful at it. I would really like to see bhangra respected this way as well.

 

[Meistro]

Why is everyone hating on "modern" bhangra? We in the States were born and brought up on it. It has its place in the circuit, and shunning it is also unrealistic.

so faizan, I take it that because we grew up with "modern bhangra", you think its ok to keep going that route? Four plus years ago, we did not have the resources to do "traditional" bhangra. "Traditional" teams were rare in NA, there were barely any videos available, etc. Its actually really ironic because I feel like we're PROGRESSING by shifting from modern to "traditional" because we went from a certain way of bhangra because we lacked resources to the RIGHT way. Isn't that what progression is?