Sportsmanship in the bhangra scene

[Amit]

I do not know anything about the particular situation over the weekend, nor do I feel comfortable preaching about how bhangra should or should not be in NA, but I do want to follow up on Waleed's core point.

One of the main things that drew me to bhangra as a high-schooler was the passion for the art and culture that I saw on stage. From hanging out with my sister and meeting a lot of teams through her, it seemed like so many teams just had a great camaraderie through this common link. I love bhangra, you love bhangra, we can connect on this. It always seemed like competitions were cool to win, but bhangra in and of itself was a reward, in the form of a great network of like-minded individuals. A situation like this past weekend's just demolishes that notion. It says that teams can get along and have this common bond, but when it comes to the size of a trophy and bragging rights, all bets are off. If my first time seeing bhangra was at Masti 3, I doubt bhangra would have the same allure that it did to me years ago. It would just leave a bad taste in my mouth and reach of artificiality.

Perhaps it's unfair to expect top teams to be role models and ambassadors of bhangra, but that's a price of greatness. It's the same price that celebrities have to pay and in the bhangra/desi communities, top teams do have celebrity status.

 

[kinnell]

I disagree with the banning punishments. Don't ban a team. Don't ban the captain. Often times, with so many things in play, the punishments may not be fair at all. Don't punish the captain if one of his dancers acts out of line and does something stupid. Often times there are a lot of factors including politcs involved. For example, not placing may piss a dancer off, but also talking smack about his girl may get him more pissed enough to start a physical fight.

I think the best punishment is withholding of prize money. Think your ego is too big to accept the prize money, fine. That's more money for the competition! (Perhaps donation to the Kinnell Booze Fund everytime a team acts out of hand?) You can only go so long without being paid from competitions and you'll learn to be more humble. If the team is loaded anyways, that's good for them. Kids who try to emulate them will realize the hard way that not everyone is made out of money.

Competitions won't ban teams because other competitions did. I doubt that very much. No matter how hard you'll try (didnt Sulman, Nikhil, Waleed..etc try this earlier?), you will rarely get much cooperation from competitions especially when it comes to judging and selecting line-up. Especially when so much of it is subjective.

Some competitions (I believe Miami Mayhem, a Raas competition does this) require you to pay a $100 damage deposit. If you damage property, it comes out of there. Perhaps a sportsmanship deposit too. Most teams should be willing to do so because many teams are sportsman-like anyways. If they arent, then the competition gets another $100, SAWEET!

 

[Vick]

From what I've heard, SGPD is booked like every weekend till 2058... With-holding prize money probably wouldn't work if they were at fault...

 

[Waleed]

Competitions won't ban teams because other competitions did. I doubt that very much. No matter how hard you'll try (didnt Sulman, Nikhil, Waleed..etc try this earlier?), you will rarely get much cooperation from competitions especially when it comes to judging and selecting line-up. Especially when so much of it is subjective.

Kinnell, I didn't catch your point. What did Me,Nikhil & Sulman try?

 

[Saab]

So what I have gotten from this insofar has been a thread of wanting to stop bad sportsmanship with:

-Withholding prize money
-Paying a damage fee
-Banning Captains, Teams
-Set certain rules/guidelines for conduct
-Let it be

Just for discussion sake I have just marked the topics that have been touched on. My response to all of this is going to be obviously in the affirmative to the purpose of this thread. I am not really going to go too much in detail, since what has been said already is in-line with most of my beliefs. I always think that competitions shouldnt always cater to the teams to have fun though, as with most competitive teams, and should really make everyones experience at the competition memorable. I know most of the competitions throw mixers and the like before parties, but I really do think that teams shouldnt just mingle at the event, but try to have them mingle at times throughout the day. If you can get everyones dress rehearsal done, send everyone to a Hospital to visit sick kids, or try to make time to go to a soup kitchen, something really meaningful and inspiring so that bonehead teams could really understand that winning at competitions is miniscule in importance to whats going on in everyday lives. We are comrades, teammates, a small brotherhood/sisterhood when you compare all of us to whats "mainstream" in this country. We should take solace in the fact that since we do the same thing that we are like kin, or at least suppress our feelings and maintain a mask of kinship. Competitions should focus on a way to better enforce regulations to make teams pay for any bad feelings that stem from a competition, whether it be one of the things listed above, and blacklist teams that have been bad throughout years past. Even more important I think that competitions should use sites such as this one to collude and come up with a general criteria that can be changed from competition-to-competition and also try to find which teams behave badly. Trying to provide discussion broskis, so if you could, please outline more thoughts or ideas that could be added to this. Be passionate about the culture, not the placings.

 

[Mowsuf]

I disagree with the banning punishments. Don't ban a team. Don't ban the captain. Often times, with so many things in play, the punishments may not be fair at all. Don't punish the captain if one of his dancers acts out of line and does something stupid. Often times there are a lot of factors including politcs involved. For example, not placing may piss a dancer off, but also talking smack about his girl may get him more pissed enough to start a physical fight.

I think the best punishment is withholding of prize money. Think your ego is too big to accept the prize money, fine. That's more money for the competition! (Perhaps donation to the Kinnell Booze Fund everytime a team acts out of hand?) You can only go so long without being paid from competitions and you'll learn to be more humble. If the team is loaded anyways, that's good for them. Kids who try to emulate them will realize the hard way that not everyone is made out of money.

Competitions won't ban teams because other competitions did. I doubt that very much. No matter how hard you'll try (didnt Sulman, Nikhil, Waleed..etc try this earlier?), you will rarely get much cooperation from competitions especially when it comes to judging and selecting line-up. Especially when so much of it is subjective.

Some competitions (I believe Miami Mayhem, a Raas competition does this) require you to pay a $100 damage deposit. If you damage property, it comes out of there. Perhaps a sportsmanship deposit too. Most teams should be willing to do so because many teams are sportsman-like anyways. If they arent, then the competition gets another $100, SAWEET!

i totally agree with kinnell, banning a team is a bit harsh, and it would be hard to follow through with that in terms of other competitions. If a top tier team is banned from a certain, or even a group of competitions, im sure other competitions would jump at the chance to have them at their event. So the banning may/may not work, i personally think its a bit impractical.

But i think withholding payment would definately be a more fitting response to unsportsmanlike conduct. Competitions could even go as far as disqualifying a team or revoking their placing in a competition if it really gets out of hand. I think that would really hit team where it hurts...in their pride. I think the risk of losing a placing/prize money would keep most, if not all teams in check. I could be wrong.

 

[zagreus]

Competitions won't ban teams because other competitions did. I doubt that very much. No matter how hard you'll try (didnt Sulman, Nikhil, Waleed..etc try this earlier?), you will rarely get much cooperation from competitions especially when it comes to judging and selecting line-up. Especially when so much of it is subjective.

Kinnell, I didn't catch your point. What did Me,Nikhil & Sulman try?

I believe Kinnell is talkin about the attempt to regulate bhangra competitions through a type of committee in a way. Probably the only thing i'm thinkin of at the moment.
i think yall kids talked about it before this season started up

 

[singhvarunjit]

Sat Sri Akal.. Copy to all... Veerji if it is something related to the podium position of some teams, it should nt be taken that wrongly as i have read some of the posts on the first page.. Banning a team for this is wrong bt it is upto the judges who have given the decision. if someone is to be put onto questioning, its the judges.. its a worse situation here in India regarding this, so jugdes try to clarify the judgement by giving some sort of speech on how the jugdement was made.. bt still, its the stronger who wins.. if the stronger one is in the favour of Bhangra, then the judgement is quite fair, otherwise u have to bear with it.. Even if the judgement is fair, always questions are raised because no one likes to accept defeat.

So, lets nt make a mess of it.. Why nt some approachable judge be asked abt that and a clarification seeked.. if its the fault at their part, they will be ashamed of it when they come to knw that such a scene has been created by their act (if in any case they are wrong).. m sure the judges also have some respect towards Bhangra n they will nt repeat such drastic mistake the next time they sit for judgement..

Bhangra is an art.. u never know when and what attracts a judge so much that he cannot see anything better than that in other teams.. So guys chill out n get a lesson to improve ur Bhangra skill even more so that no judge dare hold u back.

 

[Vic]

Sat Sri Akal.. Copy to all... Veerji if it is something related to the podium position of some teams, it should nt be taken that wrongly as i have read some of the posts on the first page.. Banning a team for this is wrong bt it is upto the judges who have given the decision. if someone is to be put onto questioning, its the judges.. its a worse situation here in India regarding this, so jugdes try to clarify the judgement by giving some sort of speech on how the jugdement was made.. bt still, its the stronger who wins.. if the stronger one is in the favour of Bhangra, then the judgement is quite fair, otherwise u have to bear with it.. Even if the judgement is fair, always questions are raised because no one likes to accept defeat.

So, lets nt make a mess of it.. Why nt some approachable judge be asked abt that and a clarification seeked.. if its the fault at their part, they will be ashamed of it when they come to knw that such a scene has been created by their act (if in any case they are wrong).. m sure the judges also have some respect towards Bhangra n they will nt repeat such drastic mistake the next time they sit for judgement..

Bhangra is an art.. u never know when and what attracts a judge so much that he cannot see anything better than that in other teams.. So guys chill out n get a lesson to improve ur Bhangra skill even more so that no judge dare hold u back.

can it be said any better? lol

 

[gifty]

Honestly, I know a lot of teams that go to competitions, sure to compete, but also to interact, to meet other people with the same interests, to travel to new cities, to spread your team's name. Yes, at the end of the day its a competition, a friendly competition. It doesn't make sense when people say "Well its a competition, we compete to win! And if you dance to spread "cultural awareness" go open up a workshop showcasing Bhangra and it's relation to the Punjabi culture". If thats your mentality, then sadly, you have lost the whole concept of what Bhangra means to our generation. We are a generation who mostly grew up in north america. Sure, in India they probably compete like its basketball, football, etc. Here, we compete, but we do it to uphold our culture, to stay connected, to learn. Winning a competition is such a small part of the whole weekend. Nobody cares who won when you're at the afterparty enjoying yourself with other people who share your passion. Its all about having a camaraderie amongst each other.

It doesn't make sense to preach sportsmanship and proffesionalism on a forum when one can't behave like that in person themself.

 

[KaraN]

Sat Sri Akal.. Copy to all... Veerji if it is something related to the podium position of some teams, it should nt be taken that wrongly as i have read some of the posts on the first page.. Banning a team for this is wrong bt it is upto the judges who have given the decision. if someone is to be put onto questioning, its the judges.. its a worse situation here in India regarding this, so jugdes try to clarify the judgement by giving some sort of speech on how the jugdement was made.. bt still, its the stronger who wins.. if the stronger one is in the favour of Bhangra, then the judgement is quite fair, otherwise u have to bear with it.. Even if the judgement is fair, always questions are raised because no one likes to accept defeat.

So, lets nt make a mess of it.. Why nt some approachable judge be asked abt that and a clarification seeked.. if its the fault at their part, they will be ashamed of it when they come to knw that such a scene has been created by their act (if in any case they are wrong).. m sure the judges also have some respect towards Bhangra n they will nt repeat such drastic mistake the next time they sit for judgement..

Bhangra is an art.. u never know when and what attracts a judge so much that he cannot see anything better than that in other teams.. So guys chill out n get a lesson to improve ur Bhangra skill even more so that no judge dare hold u back.

Amen

 

[Meistro]

Sat Sri Akal.. Copy to all... Veerji if it is something related to the podium position of some teams, it should nt be taken that wrongly as i have read some of the posts on the first page.. Banning a team for this is wrong bt it is upto the judges who have given the decision. if someone is to be put onto questioning, its the judges.. its a worse situation here in India regarding this, so jugdes try to clarify the judgement by giving some sort of speech on how the jugdement was made.. bt still, its the stronger who wins.. if the stronger one is in the favour of Bhangra, then the judgement is quite fair, otherwise u have to bear with it.. Even if the judgement is fair, always questions are raised because no one likes to accept defeat.

So, lets nt make a mess of it.. Why nt some approachable judge be asked abt that and a clarification seeked.. if its the fault at their part, they will be ashamed of it when they come to knw that such a scene has been created by their act (if in any case they are wrong).. m sure the judges also have some respect towards Bhangra n they will nt repeat such drastic mistake the next time they sit for judgement..

Bhangra is an art.. u never know when and what attracts a judge so much that he cannot see anything better than that in other teams.. So guys chill out n get a lesson to improve ur Bhangra skill even more so that no judge dare hold u back.

Veerji i understand your logic and you bring up some very good points. However, the judging here is not as qualified as it is in Punjab. In north america we have accepted that the judging is not always going to be accurate because of some kind of X factor, be it different styles of bhangra, politics, etc. Now, i don't know about banning a team but I would definitely say suspend for a certain amount of time until the lesson has been learned.

 

[Meistro]

Honestly, I know a lot of teams that go to competitions, sure to compete, but also to interact, to meet other people with the same interests, to travel to new cities, to spread your team's name. Yes, at the end of the day its a competition, a friendly competition. It doesn't make sense when people say "Well its a competition, we compete to win! And if you dance to spread "cultural awareness" go open up a workshop showcasing Bhangra and it's relation to the Punjabi culture". If thats your mentality, then sadly, you have lost the whole concept of what Bhangra means to our generation. We are a generation who mostly grew up in north america. Sure, in India they probably compete like its basketball, football, etc. Here, we compete, but we do it to uphold our culture, to stay connected, to learn. Winning a competition is such a small part of the whole weekend. Nobody cares who won when you're at the afterparty enjoying yourself with other people who share your passion. Its all about having a camaraderie amongst each other.

It doesn't make sense to preach sportsmanship and proffesionalism on a forum when one can't behave like that in person themself.

LOL right. Speak for yourself buddy.

 

[singhvarunjit]

Sat Sri Akal.. Copy to all... Veerji if it is something related to the podium position of some teams, it should nt be taken that wrongly as i have read some of the posts on the first page.. Banning a team for this is wrong bt it is upto the judges who have given the decision. if someone is to be put onto questioning, its the judges.. its a worse situation here in India regarding this, so jugdes try to clarify the judgement by giving some sort of speech on how the jugdement was made.. bt still, its the stronger who wins.. if the stronger one is in the favour of Bhangra, then the judgement is quite fair, otherwise u have to bear with it.. Even if the judgement is fair, always questions are raised because no one likes to accept defeat.

So, lets nt make a mess of it.. Why nt some approachable judge be asked abt that and a clarification seeked.. if its the fault at their part, they will be ashamed of it when they come to knw that such a scene has been created by their act (if in any case they are wrong).. m sure the judges also have some respect towards Bhangra n they will nt repeat such drastic mistake the next time they sit for judgement..

Bhangra is an art.. u never know when and what attracts a judge so much that he cannot see anything better than that in other teams.. So guys chill out n get a lesson to improve ur Bhangra skill even more so that no judge dare hold u back.

Veerji i understand your logic and you bring up some very good points. However, the judging here is not as qualified as it is in Punjab. In north america we have accepted that the judging is not always going to be accurate because of some kind of X factor, be it different styles of bhangra, politics, etc. Now, i don't know about banning a team but I would definitely say suspend for a certain amount of time until the lesson has been learned.

Sat Sri Akal Meistro Veerji... Veer its nt abt qualification or anything like that.. If ppl can raise fingers on such a respected and renowned Bhangra personality's jugdement as Principal Inderjit Singh, here in India, i thnk anythng is possible then.. no one, at least in Punjab can say that he is more qualified than him in Bhangra. So, its abt the thng only that no one likes to accept defeat and those who do in a positive manner, emerge as the best. its just the matter of the Attitude we carry.

 

[Tuckerrrr]

So what I have gotten from this insofar has been a thread of wanting to stop bad sportsmanship with:

-Withholding prize money
-Paying a damage fee
-Banning Captains, Teams
-Set certain rules/guidelines for conduct
-Let it be

Just for discussion sake I have just marked the topics that have been touched on. My response to all of this is going to be obviously in the affirmative to the purpose of this thread. I am not really going to go too much in detail, since what has been said already is in-line with most of my beliefs. I always think that competitions shouldnt always cater to the teams to have fun though, as with most competitive teams, and should really make everyones experience at the competition memorable. I know most of the competitions throw mixers and the like before parties, but I really do think that teams shouldnt just mingle at the event, but try to have them mingle at times throughout the day. If you can get everyones dress rehearsal done, send everyone to a Hospital to visit sick kids, or try to make time to go to a soup kitchen, something really meaningful and inspiring so that bonehead teams could really understand that winning at competitions is miniscule in importance to whats going on in everyday lives. We are comrades, teammates, a small brotherhood/sisterhood when you compare all of us to whats "mainstream" in this country. We should take solace in the fact that since we do the same thing that we are like kin, or at least suppress our feelings and maintain a mask of kinship. Competitions should focus on a way to better enforce regulations to make teams pay for any bad feelings that stem from a competition, whether it be one of the things listed above, and blacklist teams that have been bad throughout years past. Even more important I think that competitions should use sites such as this one to collude and come up with a general criteria that can be changed from competition-to-competition and also try to find which teams behave badly. Trying to provide discussion broskis, so if you could, please outline more thoughts or ideas that could be added to this. Be passionate about the culture, not the placings.

As implausible as it may initially sound, I think a mandatory volunteerwork trip (i.e. soup kitchen) in place of a mixer is a great idea. I know alot of the teams today wouldn't want to do it, but if it caught on I'm sure Bhangra competitions and Bhangra itself would catch on even more in mainstream America. More people would get involved with Bhangra competitions and teams because they could support a noble cause, and I'm positive that media (especially on University cumpuses) would take a larger interest. The atmosphere at competitions would be so different, and so would the audience.

Good idea Saab. Any competition organizers want to comment?

 

[HarmanSingh]

So what I have gotten from this insofar has been a thread of wanting to stop bad sportsmanship with:

-Withholding prize money
-Paying a damage fee
-Banning Captains, Teams
-Set certain rules/guidelines for conduct
-Let it be

Just for discussion sake I have just marked the topics that have been touched on. My response to all of this is going to be obviously in the affirmative to the purpose of this thread. I am not really going to go too much in detail, since what has been said already is in-line with most of my beliefs. I always think that competitions shouldnt always cater to the teams to have fun though, as with most competitive teams, and should really make everyones experience at the competition memorable. I know most of the competitions throw mixers and the like before parties, but I really do think that teams shouldnt just mingle at the event, but try to have them mingle at times throughout the day. If you can get everyones dress rehearsal done, send everyone to a Hospital to visit sick kids, or try to make time to go to a soup kitchen, something really meaningful and inspiring so that bonehead teams could really understand that winning at competitions is miniscule in importance to whats going on in everyday lives. We are comrades, teammates, a small brotherhood/sisterhood when you compare all of us to whats "mainstream" in this country. We should take solace in the fact that since we do the same thing that we are like kin, or at least suppress our feelings and maintain a mask of kinship. Competitions should focus on a way to better enforce regulations to make teams pay for any bad feelings that stem from a competition, whether it be one of the things listed above, and blacklist teams that have been bad throughout years past. Even more important I think that competitions should use sites such as this one to collude and come up with a general criteria that can be changed from competition-to-competition and also try to find which teams behave badly. Trying to provide discussion broskis, so if you could, please outline more thoughts or ideas that could be added to this. Be passionate about the culture, not the placings.

As implausible as it may initially sound, I think a mandatory volunteerwork trip (i.e. soup kitchen) in place of a mixer is a great idea. I know alot of the teams today wouldn't want to do it, but if it caught on I'm sure Bhangra competitions and Bhangra itself would catch on even more in mainstream America. More people would get involved with Bhangra competitions and teams because they could support a noble cause, and I'm positive that media (especially on University cumpuses) would take a larger interest. The atmosphere at competitions would be so different, and so would the audience.

Good idea Saab. Any competition organizers want to comment?

Tucker, I proposed competitions changing the atmosphere of the competition to something more positive a long time ago but was told by most everyone that they dont go to competitions for this kind of stuff. Teams would simply rather get trashed and party than do something positive for Punjabi culture. Everyone at Masti saw how many people were at the Academy representing teams from across Canada and America. Sure, the mixer was pretty fun with everyone singing...but if we had all devoted half that time to making us visible in the Brampton community by volunteering for a couple hours it would do so many things to the image of Punjabis in the community. Instead, the image we end up presenting is of drunk, irresponsible, violent and immature kids. As Tucker said, if you make the teams do something positive, the atmosphere of positive competition and sportmanship will arise. I would love to see people acting hard as they volunteer..although Toronto might just be able to pull it off.

 

[Arjun Barua]

So what I have gotten from this insofar has been a thread of wanting to stop bad sportsmanship with:

-Withholding prize money
-Paying a damage fee
-Banning Captains, Teams
-Set certain rules/guidelines for conduct
-Let it be

Just for discussion sake I have just marked the topics that have been touched on. My response to all of this is going to be obviously in the affirmative to the purpose of this thread. I am not really going to go too much in detail, since what has been said already is in-line with most of my beliefs. I always think that competitions shouldnt always cater to the teams to have fun though, as with most competitive teams, and should really make everyones experience at the competition memorable. I know most of the competitions throw mixers and the like before parties, but I really do think that teams shouldnt just mingle at the event, but try to have them mingle at times throughout the day. If you can get everyones dress rehearsal done, send everyone to a Hospital to visit sick kids, or try to make time to go to a soup kitchen, something really meaningful and inspiring so that bonehead teams could really understand that winning at competitions is miniscule in importance to whats going on in everyday lives. We are comrades, teammates, a small brotherhood/sisterhood when you compare all of us to whats "mainstream" in this country. We should take solace in the fact that since we do the same thing that we are like kin, or at least suppress our feelings and maintain a mask of kinship. Competitions should focus on a way to better enforce regulations to make teams pay for any bad feelings that stem from a competition, whether it be one of the things listed above, and blacklist teams that have been bad throughout years past. Even more important I think that competitions should use sites such as this one to collude and come up with a general criteria that can be changed from competition-to-competition and also try to find which teams behave badly. Trying to provide discussion broskis, so if you could, please outline more thoughts or ideas that could be added to this. Be passionate about the culture, not the placings.

As implausible as it may initially sound, I think a mandatory volunteerwork trip (i.e. soup kitchen) in place of a mixer is a great idea. I know alot of the teams today wouldn't want to do it, but if it caught on I'm sure Bhangra competitions and Bhangra itself would catch on even more in mainstream America. More people would get involved with Bhangra competitions and teams because they could support a noble cause, and I'm positive that media (especially on University cumpuses) would take a larger interest. The atmosphere at competitions would be so different, and so would the audience.

Good idea Saab. Any competition organizers want to comment?

Ram, Shawn, Harman -- this is perhaps the best idea ever suggested on this forum. I approve.

 

[Ivy]

in my openion All teams think they are the best and desrve 1st place alone .... ha ha and they should do think that to give their best performance.. but when results come out... sportsmanship is must.
If it goes against you think your desrve in you judgement...One thing give you peace, ease and feel good n that is

Competition was rigged......
now bring up more ideas how teams and commetties can get id of it...

anyway herman, shwan... .its good to read healthy discussion... keep it up...

 

[sargam]

Juvek Virk wrote at 5:04pm
Bhangra is a punjabi folk dance not " bander tapoosia" or wt clowns do, and in this game techniques an traditionalism counts more then gymnasium... ha ha ....keep up good work ...

Senior Captains Son wrote on Jasdeep Sahota facebook wall.

Is this the kind of sportsmenship we are talking about. name calling? insult? bhangra is a game? other teams are bandars? clowns?
provoking ppl?

 

[H.S.]

isnt juvek like 9 or 10.

shouldnt we keep personal facebook stuff, personal?