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What ever happened to Competition Reviews? BTF's FUTURE-->

Armaan

Active Member
Messages
423
J Wong said:
J Wong said:
IDEAS


1. Modernize the user experience. Given that BTF has significantly grown into a premier bhangra website I think that the effort can be put in now to refresh the site. Perhaps a group of people can start from scratch and code an HTML 5 site with a blog interface (i.e. main article and a comments section) Clean lines with a minimalist interface are always aesthetically pleasing.


- Track player widget? Embed upload files directly into the post for instant playing.
- Profiles? Social-network-esqe but completely stripped (i.e. only general profile and message function). I know we have them but they could use a refresh. (Competitions could use this for better information sharing?)


2. Delete the Bhangra Wiki. It is rarely used and generally limited in content.
Features and platforms.
Noted down sir! Gave you karma for it too, but def want to keep that discussion going on that and get the community's input and hopefully start working on something soon.
 

Saleem

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
1,928
Regarding platforms, I've been researching this on and off, and have had an eye on XenForo as a new forum system for a while. They just overcame a large hurdle (a patent lawsuit) that means they are actively developing now, and it's a promising change from SMF (what BTF runs on now, and is largely unchanged since "BTF 2.0" or functionally speaking, from the start). There are some missing, critical features like a Media Center which have stopped me so far, but it's something I'm actively looking into and could use the help. Please contact me or post here if you'd like to help look into and decide the future platforms for BTF.

Regarding social specifically, I do think we can do some stronger work to have social profiles and team pages that also link to fb. If you recall, last year I experimented with both liking and sharing topics to facebook, but it was used extremely rarely, so I removed it. I imagine it will be a more integrated experience in XF or some future platform.

That said, I don't think we can fix this problem by making a slicker interface or with more features. Almost everyone in this thread is a multi-year veteran. The younger members (I mean by sign up date but that goes equally for age-wise) are just not posting as much, potentially out of fear? apathy? I believe it's a combination.

You can look around and see that many of the "senior" members of this forum came from (no offense) random teams. There's no reason to be scared to post just because you don't have 10 first place trophies at home.

Plenty more thoughts, but I'll keep reading the replies.
 

yraparla

SwizzeeMusic.com
Messages
2,072
Saleem and I have also discussed essentially morphing the CTL into more of a standalone area with each team having their own page just like the competition. And then dynamically linking all the information to the forum so that each time a team posts a mix or a competition video it'll automatically show up. You can go to a comp page (say BIB 2011) and get a list of all the videos and mixes from the comp as well as the thread links if you have a question (i.e. what song is this). It's not difficult but it will be an involved process and will likely require a complete overhaul of the design and UX.


Widgets are platform, so that gets into what saleem said about moving the site, but cool things would be the media player (as jordan pointed out, pretty common). There's some ability to create a btf mixcloud account for mp3s so people can list songs by timings in mixes etc etc etc listen there's 100s of these ideas

I built the CTL from scratch in a couple months during a summer internship. I'm working fulltime now with a ton of projects and I cannot do this anymore. I've asked over the years for people to step up and a grand total of 5 people have contacted me from all the requests combined.

If you want it changed, step up and get it done. I offered my help to Saleem, he helped me get involved and I submitted the CTL (and later the media center). It's that simple, talk is cheap.

Armaan and I have been discussing getting peopel together to do this. If you're interested, let me know we're setting up googlehangout/email thread. You don't need to have a ton of experience either, just general programming/web background and a real interest to make BTF better. We'll get you involved and make sure the project is a success...what we really need is man-hours and committment!
 

jasraj93

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,122
J Wong said:
IDEAS


1. Modernize the user experience. Given that BTF has significantly grown into a premier bhangra website I think that the effort can be put in now to refresh the site. Perhaps a group of people can start from scratch and code an HTML 5 site with a blog interface (i.e. main article and a comments section) Clean lines with a minimalist interface are always aesthetically pleasing.


- Track player widget? Embed upload files directly into the post for instant playing.
- Profiles? Social-network-esqe but completely stripped (i.e. only general profile and message function). I know we have them but they could use a refresh. (Competitions could use this for better information sharing?)


2. Delete the Bhangra Wiki. It is rarely used and generally limited in content.


3. Stop deleting posts simply because they have been beaten to death. (I.E. Folk vs Modern etc) Nowadays, these are the only posts that remotely generate interest. I don't think its appropriate for a moderator to attempt to dictate the conversation, if the people want to talk about it again why not let them? What harm does it cause? Some posters might not have posted before and may add valuable insight.


4. Initially, a group of people should be tasked with writing posts such as competition reviews (if they attended) etc. I think this would be the easiest way to start garnering interest again because if no one posts no one will comment.


Again these are some random ideas.
+5000 to idea number 3
 

yraparla

SwizzeeMusic.com
Messages
2,072
jasraj93 said:
J Wong said:
IDEAS

3. Stop deleting posts simply because they have been beaten to death. (I.E. Folk vs Modern etc) Nowadays, these are the only posts that remotely generate interest. I don't think its appropriate for a moderator to attempt to dictate the conversation, if the people want to talk about it again why not let them? What harm does it cause? Some posters might not have posted before and may add valuable insight.
+5000 to idea number 3
Just to be clear. We never actually delete posts, they are simply filed away in a trash area which means they are unviewable to the general members. All those posts are still available for reference if someone needs them. We also usually only go in and do something if multiple people have complained and reported the thread. Rarely is there ever trashing of posts simply because of an opinion (unless it violates posting rules and is inflammatory). Often we go in and steer conversations or reframe questions since people ask, but never do we simply delete posts to change a thread and I'm honestly pretty hurt by that insinuation coming from you. As members we have the right to comment and contribute to a thread just as any other member does. If people complain we start it in the most non-destructive manner possible (i.e. post and reframe) and only lock if we get a lot of requests for that action (and it's clearly 1 member vs the rest, not a discussion with multiple people on different sides).

So in general mod action is a result of the community not being interested in a thread blowing up the way it has, which ties more into the common argument that because we have so many older users the new members aren't getting a chance to explore the same topics on their own. That's extremely valid and likely a huge source of the disconnect we see with new dancers. Softer discretion on worn out topics might be a good place to start to help refoster activity
 

Saleem

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
1,928
I wasn't going to respond to #3 because there's so much other content in this thread, but just to clarify and add on to what Swi said: nothing was deleted (or moved to trash) because "it's been said before". There were some offending posts which were just attacks and trash talk, and were not a valid discussion at all. I really do invite you to start a new Modern vs. Traditional thread, because bhangra in 2013 is not the same as bhangra in 2009 and it's a brand new debate.
 

Danny

Member
Messages
698
Interesting stuff here. I agree with a lot of Mr. Toor's points. He hit the nail on the head

HarmanToor said:
3) Too much anti-modern critiquing from 2010-2011 has pretty much cut the balls off any team that wanted to explore this dance further, it literally stopped bhangra from evolving dead in its tracks. Comments like "too modern", "too many gimmicks" and "not folk enough" has been one of the main reasons why bhangra hasn't progressed in the last 18 months, and one of the main reasons why bhangra(and BTF) is dying today. As much as you all hated it, modern bhangra moves and gimmicks were responsible for some of the most memorable moments in bhangra stage history. Nobody remembers or talks about how so n so did the original phumniya so well, or how they did the most basic unvaried form of chaal so well.. it was always the gimmicks and modern bhangra moves that made people speak out and be excited about whats to come in the bhangra scene. Now that this whole anti-modern movement has spun into existence, don't expect to see anything exciting on stage aside from basic bhangra. It's obvious that some of you prefer it this way, preserving the culture and all, but for most people who are like me who don't dance but get bored easily of watching the same formula of moves/formations/ideas jumbled together in 1 set performed by every team again and again.. this is a huuuuugee blow! especially for grabbing the attention of the next generation of dancers. Their mentality will be "if its already been done on stage from 2000-2010, and modern bhangra and thinking outside the box isn't welcome anymore, then what purpose do I have learning bhangra? it's the same old shit on replay".

^Harman, lol, you think that's bad? You should've seen 2007-2009 brother. I remember POL/BTF grabbing pitchforks and axes because we had one dancer doing a gimmick while the rest of the team pointed at him and "caught a breathe". Now fast-forward to 2013: Your routine isn't complete until every dancer on the squad gets a damn solo before the 8mins are up.


All love though. Just like old-timers say to us that 80's-90's NBA was real Basketball, full of happier times, and played more for the love the game...the same could be said about the Bhangra world
 

siddyp

Tough times never last, but tough people do.
Messages
1,270
Danny said:
All love though. Just like old-timers say to us that 80's-90's NBA was real Basketball, full of happier times, and played more for the love the game...the same could be said about the Bhangra world
there are still teams that dance for the love of the dance...
 

vmural2

Member
Messages
60
HarmanToor said:
5) God help us, what the fuck happened to the music? I swear, back in 08-09, new up and coming musicians that had real talent use to pop up every 2-3 months.. I can't even think of a new remixer whose come up in the last year who has shocked the bhangra team mixing world. How is this even possible? I mean, you new guys today have the best resources available.. the shit we had back in the day were the worst loops, the worst beats and just the basics in sound effects, but we crushed that scene the best we could. Klasikhs, Kush, Gsimz, 2nyce, ASG, Saab, DJ Gopi Gill, Violdinder, Rajbir SGPD, HarmanToor, Swi, Sargam, FCB etc etc the list goes on, all these remixers spawned in what was supposed to be the cheesiest and most concept driven era in bhangra team mixing history but ended up being the most legendary, inspiring and best sounding era of bhangra team mixing history. And today there is nobody to replace us and thats a damn shame. All these new remixers (granted you're trying and thats all that matters) put out these mixes that either miss or hit, but as soon as somebody says its not up to their liking, the original poster immediately replies and labels the mix as a "work in progress" or just a "rough version".. you don't hand in a rough copy essay to your professor do you? finish your work, take your time, make sure everything is perfect and to your standard before releasing it. Don't throw out 50 concept mixes in attempts to create a brand name, it doesn't work like that.
+1 This

Music quality these days is at an all time low while the resources available are at an all time high. This is my personal opinion, but I feel that this is largely due to the idea of teams "outsourcing" their mixes to a professional DJ. I think this totally kills the motivation for any dancer/team affiliate to pursue mixing simply because it removes the need for it. A lot of the mixers noted in Harman's post first started mixing for their own teams out of necessity, and then started to hone their craft and branch out. I think if teams create the need for a dj on their team, then someone they know (dancer or non-dancer) will rise up to the challenge and do it, and hell, maybe even get hooked like a lot of the mixers we praise today.
 

GSingh

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,469
vmural2 said:
HarmanToor said:
5) God help us, what the fuck happened to the music? I swear, back in 08-09, new up and coming musicians that had real talent use to pop up every 2-3 months.. I can't even think of a new remixer whose come up in the last year who has shocked the bhangra team mixing world. How is this even possible? I mean, you new guys today have the best resources available.. the shit we had back in the day were the worst loops, the worst beats and just the basics in sound effects, but we crushed that scene the best we could. Klasikhs, Kush, Gsimz, 2nyce, ASG, Saab, DJ Gopi Gill, Violdinder, Rajbir SGPD, HarmanToor, Swi, Sargam, FCB etc etc the list goes on, all these remixers spawned in what was supposed to be the cheesiest and most concept driven era in bhangra team mixing history but ended up being the most legendary, inspiring and best sounding era of bhangra team mixing history. And today there is nobody to replace us and thats a damn shame. All these new remixers (granted you're trying and thats all that matters) put out these mixes that either miss or hit, but as soon as somebody says its not up to their liking, the original poster immediately replies and labels the mix as a "work in progress" or just a "rough version".. you don't hand in a rough copy essay to your professor do you? finish your work, take your time, make sure everything is perfect and to your standard before releasing it. Don't throw out 50 concept mixes in attempts to create a brand name, it doesn't work like that.
+1 This

Music quality these days is at an all time low while the resources available are at an all time high. This is my personal opinion, but I feel that this is largely due to the idea of teams "outsourcing" their mixes to a professional DJ. I think this totally kills the motivation for any dancer/team affiliate to pursue mixing simply because it removes the need for it. A lot of the mixers noted in Harman's post first started mixing for their own teams out of necessity, and then started to hone their craft and branch out. I think if teams create the need for a dj on their team, then someone they know (dancer or non-dancer) will rise up to the challenge and do it, and hell, maybe even get hooked like a lot of the mixers we praise today.
I attribute the lack of quality recently to changing tastes. With so much desire to be different, and unique, teams try to experiment and most of the time it simply does not hit because "being different" takes the front burner and overall quality takes a back-burner.

Another thing is the amount of absolute SHIT music that has come out in the past 2 years. It's just gandh with no substance. Same "soniye.... gideh vich nachiii ..... daru peeni.... bakre balaunde..... jatt + verb.....".

Some teams take being "fresh" too seriously because if whatever is fresh, SUCKS, then don't do it. A fresh turd is still.. a turd...

Musically, BTF has also taken a pretty big dump. Back when I joined, the mixes I used to download exclusively from here were dope as hell. Nowdays, its just kids passing time with no real aspirations. A few have stepped up and shown worth but mostly its just "hayguise.. new mix, did it in 3 minutes, didn't really check eq or anything... kinda just... u know . :p did it :D HEHE ..... so yeah... tell me I'm good so I can continue to do it kthnxxxx".

I may be wrong about all of it, who knows, but all I know for sure is that good music doesn't require anything but heart.
 
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