What Would You Do? Sikh being refused a job at a restaurant

[Multani]

Lakh Pardesi - Gurdas Maan

 

[G. Sidhu]

/

 

[itsG]

No offense but we all are experts at giving advice but the real test is when you yourself are going thru that situation. I bet if you were denied a job for being brown and was told straight up or saw a video of it ...all u diplomats will prolly write essays about freedom of right ..and how it is so unfair etc etc here ..

just OWNED all^^

 

[Nikhil]

No offense but we all are experts at giving advice but the real test is when you yourself are going thru that situation. I bet if you were denied a job for being brown and was told straight up or saw a video of it ...all u diplomats will prolly write essays about freedom of right ..and how it is so unfair etc etc here ..

Yes, that's true. But there's a difference between the skin your born with, and the decisions you make to celebrate/outwardly show your religion. One is not the same as the other. If I was told I couldn't get a job because I was brown, I would obviously get the police called on me for disturbing the peace. But, and to also answer Harman's question, if we're talking about removing a pughadi, I would have to think about what that means to me, and the consequence if I didn't want to remove it. Would I jeopardize earning money/establishing a life for myself? Would I jeopardize the survival of people who depended on me?

Harman, I'm not saying it would be logical for him to remove the pagh. I am saying where do you decide for yourself that you're not any less of a Hindu/Sikh/Muslim if you do remove religious garb in order to get a job. I didn't want to venture down that slippery slope of defending your religious practice/explaining it, and I don't want to set up a scenario where people may interpret what I am saying as racist in itself. But I'm thinking, there is a clear dichotomy of thought: Go to the grave protecting what you believe in, or, Change for the sake of obtaining something you need.


It's not egocentric to think that you have a purpose in this life, so by changing how you are viewed in order to do what you need to, I don't think it's selfish; I think that's aligning yourself with purpose.

 

[faysal]

VERY relevant movie Ocean of Pearls

 

[ENVY BANG-RUH]

VERY relevant movie Ocean of Pearls

I was waiting for someone to mention or post something about this movie.

 

[HarmanSingh]

No offense but we all are experts at giving advice but the real test is when you yourself are going thru that situation. I bet if you were denied a job for being brown and was told straight up or saw a video of it ...all u diplomats will prolly write essays about freedom of right ..and how it is so unfair etc etc here ..

Yes, that's true. But there's a difference between the skin your born with, and the decisions you make to celebrate/outwardly show your religion. One is not the same as the other. If I was told I couldn't get a job because I was brown, I would obviously get the police called on me for disturbing the peace. But, and to also answer Harman's question, if we're talking about removing a pughadi, I would have to think about what that means to me, and the consequence if I didn't want to remove it. Would I jeopardize earning money/establishing a life for myself? Would I jeopardize the survival of people who depended on me?

Harman, I'm not saying it would be logical for him to remove the pagh. I am saying where do you decide for yourself that you're not any less of a Hindu/Sikh/Muslim if you do remove religious garb in order to get a job. I didn't want to venture down that slippery slope of defending your religious practice/explaining it, and I don't want to set up a scenario where people may interpret what I am saying as racist in itself. But I'm thinking, there is a clear dichotomy of thought: Go to the grave protecting what you believe in, or, Change for the sake of obtaining something you need.


It's not egocentric to think that you have a purpose in this life, so by changing how you are viewed in order to do what you need to, I don't think it's selfish; I think that's aligning yourself with purpose.

Racism plays no part in this conversation, it is about bigotry/xenophobia. For anyone who chooses to be a sardar (and isn't forced by family), asking them to remove their pugh is like asking them to cut off a limb. It is not even something I would consider. I think what you are essentially saying is you sometimes have to make compromises to get where you want to be. Maybe others are willing to compromise with bigots, but I think those people are cowards.

 

[HarmanToor]

No offense but we all are experts at giving advice but the real test is when you yourself are going thru that situation. I bet if you were denied a job for being brown and was told straight up or saw a video of it ...all u diplomats will prolly write essays about freedom of right ..and how it is so unfair etc etc here ..

Yes, that's true. But there's a difference between the skin your born with, and the decisions you make to celebrate/outwardly show your religion. One is not the same as the other. If I was told I couldn't get a job because I was brown, I would obviously get the police called on me for disturbing the peace. But, and to also answer Harman's question, if we're talking about removing a pughadi, I would have to think about what that means to me, and the consequence if I didn't want to remove it. Would I jeopardize earning money/establishing a life for myself? Would I jeopardize the survival of people who depended on me?

Harman, I'm not saying it would be logical for him to remove the pagh. I am saying where do you decide for yourself that you're not any less of a Hindu/Sikh/Muslim if you do remove religious garb in order to get a job. I didn't want to venture down that slippery slope of defending your religious practice/explaining it, and I don't want to set up a scenario where people may interpret what I am saying as racist in itself. But I'm thinking, there is a clear dichotomy of thought: Go to the grave protecting what you believe in, or, Change for the sake of obtaining something you need.


It's not egocentric to think that you have a purpose in this life, so by changing how you are viewed in order to do what you need to, I don't think it's selfish; I think that's aligning yourself with purpose.

I see where your coming from, but you have to be a sardar to fully understand the pain of being asked to cut your hair for the sake of making money.. money can be made anywhere, there are thousands of jobs and thousands of opportunities to make money out there in this huge ass world, anyone who tells you otherwise is bound for failure anyways..but the loss in self respect and shame you have to face everyday knowing you destroyed your own identity to please someone else, theres no amount of money that can cure that pain.

I don't even think pride has much to do with it, someone told you that you are unqualified for a job, not based off your abilities but your appearance.. thats weak..and if you give in and cut your hair and end up working for a company that treats people like that, you'd be just as weak.

 

[Hattpichay]

I'm surprised to see people actually insinuate that the hypothetical sardar in the video actually remove his pagg for work. There's nothing wrong with holding a racist belief. As a matter of fact, it is your right. What he did was against the law. The freedom of religion is a protected class under the constitution.

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/religion.cfm

"Unless it would be an undue hardship on the employer's operation of its business, an employer must reasonably accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices."

What is undue hardship? "Undue hardship means significant difficulty or expense and focuses on the resources and circumstances of the particular employer in relationship to the cost or difficulty of providing a specific accommodation. Undue hardship refers not only to financial difficulty, but to reasonable accommodations that are unduly extensive, substantial, or disruptive, or those that would fundamentally alter the nature or operation of the business."
In the scenario of this video, how does a pagg produce undue hardship on the business?

But above all, what constitutes religion? Because we all know there are religions out there that require you to be nude in public.

"To determine whether an action of the federal or state government infringes upon a person's right to freedom of religion, the court must decide what qualifies as religion or religious activities for purposes of the First Amendment. The Supreme Court has interpreted religion to mean a sincere and meaningful belief that occupies in the life of its possessor a place parallel to the place held by God in the lives of other persons."

"United States v. Ballard, 322 U.S. 78, 64 S. Ct. 882, 88 L. Ed. 1148 (1944) The Ballard case involved the conviction of organizers of the I Am movement on grounds that they defrauded people by falsely representing that their members had supernatural powers to heal people with incurable illnesses.The Supreme Court held that the jury, in determining the line between the free exercise of religion and the punishable offense"
Following the case law, the jury will determine whether the religion of nude, tattoos, etc are valid or not.

 

[Ashveer]

I'm surprised to see people actually insinuate that the hypothetical sardar in the video actually remove his pagg for work. There's nothing wrong with holding a racist belief. As a matter of fact, it is your right. What he did was against the law. The freedom of religion is a protected class under the constitution.

http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/types/religion.cfm

"Unless it would be an undue hardship on the employer's operation of its business, an employer must reasonably accommodate an employee's religious beliefs or practices."

What is undue hardship? "Undue hardship means significant difficulty or expense and focuses on the resources and circumstances of the particular employer in relationship to the cost or difficulty of providing a specific accommodation. Undue hardship refers not only to financial difficulty, but to reasonable accommodations that are unduly extensive, substantial, or disruptive, or those that would fundamentally alter the nature or operation of the business."
In the scenario of this video, how does a pagg produce undue hardship on the business?

But above all, what constitutes religion? Because we all know there are religions out there that require you to be nude in public.

"To determine whether an action of the federal or state government infringes upon a person's right to freedom of religion, the court must decide what qualifies as religion or religious activities for purposes of the First Amendment. The Supreme Court has interpreted religion to mean a sincere and meaningful belief that occupies in the life of its possessor a place parallel to the place held by God in the lives of other persons."

"United States v. Ballard, 322 U.S. 78, 64 S. Ct. 882, 88 L. Ed. 1148 (1944) The Ballard case involved the conviction of organizers of the I Am movement on grounds that they defrauded people by falsely representing that their members had supernatural powers to heal people with incurable illnesses.The Supreme Court held that the jury, in determining the line between the free exercise of religion and the punishable offense"
Following the case law, the jury will determine whether the religion of nude, tattoos, etc are valid or not.

Other interesting legal cases:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherbert_v._Verner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment_Division_v._Smith

 

[somi15]

What Would You Do? Sikh being refused a job at a restaurant
forget about the white lady...

 

[SanghaSoldier]

Think this has been posted already

 

[somi15]

Think this has been posted already

i tried looking but i couldnt find it

 

[Sonuu]

No offense but we all are experts at giving advice but the real test is when you yourself are going thru that situation. I bet if you were denied a job for being brown and was told straight up or saw a video of it ...all u diplomats will prolly write essays about freedom of right ..and how it is so unfair etc etc here ..

Yes, that's true. But there's a difference between the skin your born with, and the decisions you make to celebrate/outwardly show your religion. One is not the same as the other. If I was told I couldn't get a job because I was brown, I would obviously get the police called on me for disturbing the peace. But, and to also answer Harman's question, if we're talking about removing a pughadi, I would have to think about what that means to me, and the consequence if I didn't want to remove it. Would I jeopardize earning money/establishing a life for myself? Would I jeopardize the survival of people who depended on me?

Harman, I'm not saying it would be logical for him to remove the pagh. I am saying where do you decide for yourself that you're not any less of a Hindu/Sikh/Muslim if you do remove religious garb in order to get a job. I didn't want to venture down that slippery slope of defending your religious practice/explaining it, and I don't want to set up a scenario where people may interpret what I am saying as racist in itself. But I'm thinking, there is a clear dichotomy of thought: Go to the grave protecting what you believe in, or, Change for the sake of obtaining something you need.


It's not egocentric to think that you have a purpose in this life, so by changing how you are viewed in order to do what you need to, I don't think it's selfish; I think that's aligning yourself with purpose.

There may be a difference to you, but if you ask most Sikh's that wear a pug, most of them will say that the Pug is just as much part of them as are their arms and legs. Asking one to remove the pug would be the equivalent of me asking you to chop off your arm, which is obviously an outrageous request. To the employer, this may not be a big deal, however it is to most Sikhs.

Now going back to what you said about your skin. Your skin is a part of you as much as my pug is a part of me, so me discriminating against you for the color of your skin is as outrageous as it is you discriminating against me for my pug.

 

[kamalb]

although we may not like to admit it, similar things regarding discrimination towards sikhs happen all of the time. i personally have been discriminated at a job interview a few years back. i was for an internship at an engineering firm, and the interviewer was gujrati. he basically went to the extent of saying that they cant take me due to the fact that i had just finished high school, which is totally understandable, but what he said next was ridiculous. he said that i should "look for a job in a factory in brampton, where other sardars work before applying with us". i just said are you kidding me? alright have a good day sir and walked out trying to keep my cool. when i got out i called the family friend who was helping me get the job and told him what this guy had said. long story short someone from their HR department ended up calling me apologizing on the company's behalf reassuring me that what he said in no way reflected what their corporation stood for and got me a job in their particular branch.


of course what the white guy said in this video was not to the same extent of this, being downright racist, but it just shows that as much as wed like to turn a blind eye to it, shit like this always happens. yes it would be a lot easier for a sikh to cut his hair to get a job, but its about principal. i personally would never even think of cutting my hair regardless of how much money was on the line because, as many people have stated, it would be like asking someone to cut their arm off, which in my eyes is a ridiculous thing to ask someone. dont get me wrong, i dont look down on any1 that does cut their hair, these are just my own personal beliefs and i dont go shoving them down other peoples throats