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Which political/social figure to you admire the most, and why?
- Thread starter Summy
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HarmanSingh
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All the Gurus, Mata Gujri, Mata Khivi, Bhai Taru Singh, Bhai Sati Das, Udham Singh, Bhagat Singh, Nelson Mandela, Malcolm X. MLK, Huey Newton and many more.
Meistro
Asi Shounk Nu Karaiyaan Muschaan Kundiyaan...
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Michael Jordan....................hes got SIX championship rings, had a new shoe come out every single year while he was playing, people still to this day collect his shoes like its a religion, he has a successful line of clothing/atheltic apparel, has a restaurant with pics of him plastered all over it, he still endorses like a bazillion different things even though hes not playing anymore, he's still the topic of conversation in sports.....just a very well rounded individual. haha
HarmanSingh
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Jordan may have been a great athlete but is far from a role model or someone to look up to beyond his athletic ability and marketing.
He never stood for anything or made a statement of influence to effect African Americans or minorities in general with all the power he had/has. He carried unbelievable power as an athlete and never used it to do anything of significance. He played while the crack epidemic killed the inner city, while the cops beat innocent black men and while this government stood by/aided these things and said not a word. Same reason I don't respect Tiger Woods- unbelievable power and no use of it for good. If you want to look at a great athlete who stood for something- Mohammad Ali.
Even his marketing genius is problematic because he used his power to fuel wasteful spending and create shoes that served to exploit low income blacks who bought his shoes..that is why I respect Stephon Marbury and Ben Wallace who recognized the way athletes were exploiting the very places they came from with goods that were nowhere near worth what they were sold for.
He never stood for anything or made a statement of influence to effect African Americans or minorities in general with all the power he had/has. He carried unbelievable power as an athlete and never used it to do anything of significance. He played while the crack epidemic killed the inner city, while the cops beat innocent black men and while this government stood by/aided these things and said not a word. Same reason I don't respect Tiger Woods- unbelievable power and no use of it for good. If you want to look at a great athlete who stood for something- Mohammad Ali.
Even his marketing genius is problematic because he used his power to fuel wasteful spending and create shoes that served to exploit low income blacks who bought his shoes..that is why I respect Stephon Marbury and Ben Wallace who recognized the way athletes were exploiting the very places they came from with goods that were nowhere near worth what they were sold for.
Meistro
Asi Shounk Nu Karaiyaan Muschaan Kundiyaan...
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ummmm the creation of his shoes exploited low income blacks who bought his shoes? Last time I checked, we don't buy stuff that we can't afford. Its common sense. Michael Jordan is NOT to blame for a black man who decides to buy a pair of $200 shoes rather than feed his family. Just like anyone else, Jordan has a life, he is making living with intentions of being a successful businessman in a very competitive market........Jordan never stood for anything? Really? He was the ideal black role model for HARD WORK and PROFESSIONALISM. Little dudes walking around like gangster allen Iverson's could learn a thing or two from Jordan's sophistication and intellect. He walked around wearing a suit because he felt obligated to uphold a positive public image. Just because you have power does not mean you have to stand for something. People aren't retards that he has to stand for something and feel sorry for his people. He led by example. He attracted enough attention by the way he played and the way he carried himself. YOu wanna feel sorry for urban low income black folks who can't help themselves? He played while the crack epidemic killed the inner city? Really? WHen your own people can't help themselves, you can't expect people to stay stagnant and go nowhere. Its not his fault his people decided not to follow his the example of his actions, etc. How can you even begin to blame Jordan for not standing up.HarmanSingh said:
Summy
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Harman,
Athletes or celebrities dont nesscearily have an obligation to be influential in any social manner. Some people dont have the will, or the nature to be what you feel they should be. I would rather see a tiger woods or jordan out there, then someone who does things for the sake of doing them and the assoication of doing such acts. Dont look down on Jordan and Woods, and dont not respect them just because they didnt use their fame to further any social cause. Some people are not built for that. For some people it is not in their blood. Just because he could shoot a basketball or woods could drive a ball doesnt mean they have an obligation to advancing anything within their community or without. It would have beneficial yes, but to me, they dont differ from any other person on this earth. If you were to look at them and say, yes as African Americans they did nothing, I understand that, but dont hold their fame against them.
I agree completely with meistro, that came out of left feild there harman.
Also Harman, interested to hear your ONE figure. I posed the question in a singular manner for a reason.
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So its interesting, some people keep it really culturally internalized, and than other people look beyond it and go without their culture. thats interesting. The reason I brought it up was that I was talking to community volunteer who was helping with the violence in congo, and we got onto the topic of dellaire and annan during rwanada. He mentioned to me that people, no matter where they are raised, people will always admire a figure that is distinct to their culture, as a means of relatibility. Then he turned to me, and something that blew my mind, he said, the refugees of Congo, the young men engaged in the violence, they have nobody coming out of their land, their people to look up to.
I thought for a second, within Africa there is cultural and national divides, just like with India, Pakistan, Sri lanka etc... But when you have a group of peoples who are continually margnalized, the maginalization goes further. They will never have lets say a Barack Obama, a Clinton, and these other cultural icons that seem to be turned out every couple of decades in the west. Interesting.
Some people strive for a influential figure, and if you think about it, we are so lucky to have so many... So many that people look at Steve Young as a guide to their lives... wow. I have a feeling a ball of yarn could entertain vick for hours, hahaha.
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Waleed and everyone,
Malcolm X. Lets talk about him. What do you mean the willingness to admitt his mistakes and change his stance. Are you talking in regards to his affliation with the Black Muslim movement, or his admiration for Elijah Mohammed, or are you talking about something else....
Go into for me, if you could, why you look up to him. I look up to him greatly as well, and probably is one of the 3 people I admire the most, but I am interested by your couple of words there and the fact you decided to use his muslim name and not the name Malcolm X, which was symbolic more of his fight against tyranny.
Also how do you feel about the whole NOI and how that broke down? I am just interested, no back alley tactics, no other reasons for asking you, just honeslty interested in what you have to say.....
Athletes or celebrities dont nesscearily have an obligation to be influential in any social manner. Some people dont have the will, or the nature to be what you feel they should be. I would rather see a tiger woods or jordan out there, then someone who does things for the sake of doing them and the assoication of doing such acts. Dont look down on Jordan and Woods, and dont not respect them just because they didnt use their fame to further any social cause. Some people are not built for that. For some people it is not in their blood. Just because he could shoot a basketball or woods could drive a ball doesnt mean they have an obligation to advancing anything within their community or without. It would have beneficial yes, but to me, they dont differ from any other person on this earth. If you were to look at them and say, yes as African Americans they did nothing, I understand that, but dont hold their fame against them.
I agree completely with meistro, that came out of left feild there harman.
Also Harman, interested to hear your ONE figure. I posed the question in a singular manner for a reason.
--------------------------
So its interesting, some people keep it really culturally internalized, and than other people look beyond it and go without their culture. thats interesting. The reason I brought it up was that I was talking to community volunteer who was helping with the violence in congo, and we got onto the topic of dellaire and annan during rwanada. He mentioned to me that people, no matter where they are raised, people will always admire a figure that is distinct to their culture, as a means of relatibility. Then he turned to me, and something that blew my mind, he said, the refugees of Congo, the young men engaged in the violence, they have nobody coming out of their land, their people to look up to.
I thought for a second, within Africa there is cultural and national divides, just like with India, Pakistan, Sri lanka etc... But when you have a group of peoples who are continually margnalized, the maginalization goes further. They will never have lets say a Barack Obama, a Clinton, and these other cultural icons that seem to be turned out every couple of decades in the west. Interesting.
Some people strive for a influential figure, and if you think about it, we are so lucky to have so many... So many that people look at Steve Young as a guide to their lives... wow. I have a feeling a ball of yarn could entertain vick for hours, hahaha.
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Waleed and everyone,
Malcolm X. Lets talk about him. What do you mean the willingness to admitt his mistakes and change his stance. Are you talking in regards to his affliation with the Black Muslim movement, or his admiration for Elijah Mohammed, or are you talking about something else....
Go into for me, if you could, why you look up to him. I look up to him greatly as well, and probably is one of the 3 people I admire the most, but I am interested by your couple of words there and the fact you decided to use his muslim name and not the name Malcolm X, which was symbolic more of his fight against tyranny.
Also how do you feel about the whole NOI and how that broke down? I am just interested, no back alley tactics, no other reasons for asking you, just honeslty interested in what you have to say.....
Varun
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Siddhartha Gautama.
challenged people to question their beliefs and even his own authority, taught to free one's mind from desires of all kinds, fought against the perils of blind dogma, and spread the word of peace, non-violence (to all creatures), and compassion bout 500 years before Jesus Christ.
Malcolm X was also an amazing political figure
challenged people to question their beliefs and even his own authority, taught to free one's mind from desires of all kinds, fought against the perils of blind dogma, and spread the word of peace, non-violence (to all creatures), and compassion bout 500 years before Jesus Christ.
Malcolm X was also an amazing political figure
pluthra
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well maybe if u read up on her she'd change ur mind...she really is an amazing person!! and I think the way she challenged society in the 1930s was amazing. You could never have really seen a woman who was great at so many sports. I mean talk about tiger woods and all, but this women is great and it sucks that there's so many great people out there who sometimes barely get acknowledged.Vick said:
and i notice that a lot of the people that people see as influential, amazing, etc are all people who had their moment of glory not just in front of a few people but in front of many. How come no one looks beyond the norm of idols. It seems like ohh this person is well known by everyone I think i'll like them, like theres some sort of paradigm set up. And ya we're people we wud do that, and im sure i've done it too. Sure, I'd probably do the same thing. Like remeber when you were little and you had to do a project on your idol, and everyone always took like MLK, Malcom X, Princess Diana, a bunch of athletes....that's so lame we never get to learn about anyone else because its like only these people are truly amazing. I think people should challenge themselves and see what else other individuals gotta bring to the table....so Vick i think u shud go get a bio on babe didrikson and then decide if women are great in sports or not
Waleed
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Summy, I'm assuming you have read 'The Autobiography of Malcolm X'. Upon returning from Hajj (holy pilgrimage to Mecca), Malcolm converted to mainstream (sunni) Islam - the largest sect of Islam as 85% of Muslims are Sunni. One must note, he underwent a huge change in stance on many issues after his pilgrimage. After sharing his tent with those from every background and culture he realized that the only way forward was if everyone learned to live together - yes, this was the same guy who had preached that white man could never be trusted.Summy said:
Malcolm def got America's black population thinking and gave them the courage to stand up against the terrible injustice of segregation, but his greatest service were his words of reconciliation and cooperation after he returned from hajj. He knew very well that his speeches against Elijah Mohammed and the NOI would make him a political target but he did not waver and spoke the truth. He gave hope to not just a specific population but all Americans.
COMTONDAJATT
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Not any one person, but many. I cant pick one.
Mahavira and Gautam Buddh - Varun summed it up well
Baba Bulleh Shah and Baba Fariduddin Ganj-E-Shakr - amazing poetry and excellent Sufi teachers
Guru Nanak - for his teachings and helping people not be so ignorant
Kabir and Ravidas - for their poetry and overall awesomeness
Socrates - Socratic method kicks ass
Ali ibn Abi Talib - "King of The Brave, Lion of God", wise beyond belief, great warrior
Hussain ibn Ali - Martyr in every sense of the word
Alexander the Great - freakin' conquered everything
Bruce Lee - I pretty much worshipped when I was young and into martial arts
Sultan Rahi - HE WAS MAULA JATT
This off the top of my head I am sure I have more.
( Plz dont yell at me for not picking one Summy
)
Mahavira and Gautam Buddh - Varun summed it up well
Baba Bulleh Shah and Baba Fariduddin Ganj-E-Shakr - amazing poetry and excellent Sufi teachers
Guru Nanak - for his teachings and helping people not be so ignorant
Kabir and Ravidas - for their poetry and overall awesomeness
Socrates - Socratic method kicks ass
Ali ibn Abi Talib - "King of The Brave, Lion of God", wise beyond belief, great warrior
Hussain ibn Ali - Martyr in every sense of the word
Alexander the Great - freakin' conquered everything
Bruce Lee - I pretty much worshipped when I was young and into martial arts
Sultan Rahi - HE WAS MAULA JATT
This off the top of my head I am sure I have more.
( Plz dont yell at me for not picking one Summy
)
Summy
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What on earth on you talking about? Seriously, how about you read my posts twice not make yourself out to the person that continously boggles my mind in the worst way possible. Re-read it, who hated on who? Are you serious? Was that a real comment, or am I in some sort of twlight or something. Please, dont respond to my posts Somia, really, its just getting a bit too depressing. Like honestly, I read that, got up, and was like, where am I? What just happened?Somia said:
To the non sociopathe's out there....
I think I was getting at non religious figures, but I guess it didnt come across
For me it depends in what aspect one talks about the figures in. For my a political leader I look up to is Cetshwayo Kampande. His actions and what he left to the zulus is something if people spent the time to read and understand would, I think, change the face of humanity.
There is also people like the obvious, cant even begin to name all the indian leaders, would take too long, federick douglass, Charles Gordon, the works of norman cousins, mohammed Yunus, lester pearson, kofi annan, Shimon Peres, Albert lutuli, .... But if I had to pick one, it would A CLOSE CLOSE CLOSE DECISION BETWEEN Desmond Tuti and Nelson Mandela, with the nod going to Mandela.
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Waleed,
Excusing somia rom this discussion so we can keep it intelligent, it is interesting what you said about Malcolm X. The reason for that is undoubtly people look at his message under elijah mohammed and see that message as morwe indicitive of the opression of blacks in America. From many of my muslim friends, as expected, would argue that the NOI didnt practice islam correctly, but I believe talking about his religious affliation, whether the NOI, of Sunni or whatever have you, gets away from his main message which was the social status of blacks in America.
I dont want to give somia an ounce of recognition but I am not putting your choce down obviously, because those who have choosen to wonder pass the bhangra discussion would realize that I am a big admirer of Malcolm X. But I think I identify more with his views earlier in his life, not that the ones later are different, but, I identify more with his earlier work, and I feel like it is the most ultimate justifcation of MLK's work.... I think that philosophically they butted heads, but had the same goal. I always admried MLK in another level because he advocated exactly what you described, and what malcolm x came to realize later on in his wonderful life. Malcolm X used to accuse Dr. King of playing into the hands of the white oppressor, and that his philsophy was too friendly, and that he was the only leader whites could accept. Then when Malcolm X came to the conclusion you pointed to above, I feel that he would have been such a more influential leader had that been his thinkng from the beginning.
HAVING SAID THAT, like I said, I liked his techings more in the beginning, when he compared the american social system to ravages and dogs during that time. He would make my man Kampande very happy.
Summy
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One more thing about Malcolm X, so many people enjoyed or loved his stance, but I am sure that Waleed would agree, that the majority of those people practice exactly what he preached against.
Just saying, those who admire certain figures do not necessarily believe those figures are influential enough to change the way one may live, so those figures that changed you would be who I directed that question at.
Just saying, those who admire certain figures do not necessarily believe those figures are influential enough to change the way one may live, so those figures that changed you would be who I directed that question at.
HarmanSingh
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lol im not gonna get into a whole thing about MJ, but I just find it funny you would say that Summy. Not too long ago you were hating on the Pistons saying you had no respect for them because of the way they behaved (specifically pointing out technical fouls) and said they were setting a bad example for kids. You have railed against the hip hop culture for the downfall of black America and its evil nature because rappers are setting bad examples. Well...what example is Jordan setting? None? The man was the MOST powerful social figure in his prime...everyone and anyone knew him. And he said not a word as his community fell apart, and chose to make overpriced, sweat-shop made sneakers. You have a very passive approach to MJ being a role model but you were adamant that "soldier boy" needs to address the concerns of the inner city in his music. MJ has/had more power than any rapper you have a problem with and has done nothing positive to show for it.
Sure, the guy is to be admired for his success on the court and for his money in the bank...but I don't think their is any reason to look up to him because he showed no moral character. I am just saying this because I expect more out of a person with millions, a college education and the knowledge that his community is in shambles. And believe me, he is not held in high esteem in the black community for the same reason. People are down on MJ for his lack of social awareness and for deliberately ignoring problems facing the inner city in favor of making money. When kids were literally being gunned down over Js he did not even release a statement, so afraid he would lose money. That is something I do not respect. Like I said, a great athlete with something to say is Mohammad Ali. Not MJ. But hey, if you really like him that much, go for it.
As far as 1 figure (excluding religious figures), I would go with Nelson Mandela off my original list. He is Malcolm X and MLK rolled into 1 and is a modern day hero for his resistance to oppression, fight for freedom and love for every human being..even those who imprisoned him so wrongly. He really doesn't get his dues because he was not assassinated...we tend to gravitate towards those with a brutal death, but Mandela has survived and doesn't have the "cool" factor Malcolm does. I mean, how many Mandela tshirts have you ever seen? One of my favorite books is "Long Walk to Freedom", autobiography of Nelson Mandela. He is just a great man in every regard.
"No one is born hating another person because of the colour of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite."- Mandela
Sure, the guy is to be admired for his success on the court and for his money in the bank...but I don't think their is any reason to look up to him because he showed no moral character. I am just saying this because I expect more out of a person with millions, a college education and the knowledge that his community is in shambles. And believe me, he is not held in high esteem in the black community for the same reason. People are down on MJ for his lack of social awareness and for deliberately ignoring problems facing the inner city in favor of making money. When kids were literally being gunned down over Js he did not even release a statement, so afraid he would lose money. That is something I do not respect. Like I said, a great athlete with something to say is Mohammad Ali. Not MJ. But hey, if you really like him that much, go for it.
As far as 1 figure (excluding religious figures), I would go with Nelson Mandela off my original list. He is Malcolm X and MLK rolled into 1 and is a modern day hero for his resistance to oppression, fight for freedom and love for every human being..even those who imprisoned him so wrongly. He really doesn't get his dues because he was not assassinated...we tend to gravitate towards those with a brutal death, but Mandela has survived and doesn't have the "cool" factor Malcolm does. I mean, how many Mandela tshirts have you ever seen? One of my favorite books is "Long Walk to Freedom", autobiography of Nelson Mandela. He is just a great man in every regard.
"No one is born hating another person because of the colour of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite."- Mandela