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Which political/social figure to you admire the most, and why?

Tuckerrrr

Member
Messages
321
True hero: Puran Singh (Pingalwara)

All the other guys are cool too...I don't think you can really rank them because each person motivates people in different ways. Some look at a man/woman's moral fibers, some look at bravery in acting against opression or in battle, some look at loyalty, some at leadership, some look at hard work. You can't say that someone is wrong or less of a person for idolizing someone you might not idolize. We all idolize people to make ourselves better in different aspects of our character. Summy, your comments are going back to what they were on POL...offensive, pointless, and they make you slightly dumber after reading them (it's contagious, so stop in the interest of the greater good). Just for you Summy: my idols are Tigerstyle...I especially like their Shaheedi tracks referring to Bhindranwale.
 

Waleed

New Member
Messages
729
HarmanSingh said:
As far as 1 figure (excluding religious figures), I would go with Nelson Mandela off my original list. He is Malcolm X and MLK rolled into 1 and is a modern day hero for his resistance to oppression, fight for freedom and love for every human being..even those who imprisoned him so wrongly. He really doesn't get his dues because he was not assassinated...we tend to gravitate towards those with a brutal death, but Mandela has survived and doesn't have the "cool" factor Malcolm does. I mean, how many Mandela tshirts have you ever seen? One of my favorite books is "Long Walk to Freedom", autobiography of Nelson Mandela. He is just a great man in every regard.

"No one is born hating another person because of the colour of his skin, or his background, or his religion. People must learn to hate, and if they can learn to hate, they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite."- Mandela
+1
 

Summy

New Member
Messages
11
Umm Harman, what are you talking about? Hahaha. There is a difference of expecting a basketball to deal with the inner chicago drug area problems, and claiming he was somehow abdoning his roots by creating an expensive sneaker (hahahaha), and basketball players acting like idiots on the floor. There is a difference between being poisonous to a culture and then demanding someone be a social activist. Hahaha, you know what buddy, I think that was the last straw. I have no idea what you are talking about, and lately you have been a pseudo me, but without all the, you know, reading and facts. Hahaha, I cant BELIEVE you just compared Micheal Jordan and him not doing anything about chicago drug use, and be looking at people like solidier boy and other rap artists who continue to demean their own culture. HAHA. OUT OF EVER SCHOLAR I have ever read, you hear the criticism of rap music, you hear the criticism of other prominent black figures and their actions, but rarely did you hear ANYONE bag on jordan because he didnt help out the inner city chicago youth and their drug problems. Haha. How you make that connection is beyond me. Look at how many influential actors, athletes etc... there are in the world, nobody in academia look at those people and demand some sort of activism DEPENDENT and CONTINGENT to their fame. Jordan is more famous than me, therefore, he should do a lot more than me in the areas of activism. RIGHT.

Your SERIOUSLY SERIOUSLY SERIOULSY mis informed if you think that black man who doesnt contribute to social problems when he has a certain social status, is comparable to those who use the language of slavery upon their own people. You the same guy who said we as indians have no right to stand up against the use of the slavery terms because we "are not black". I find it funny you are so concerned with the black community now, and micheal jordan not using his fame to the best way possible. To me, it would be better suited, if we just "minded our buisness" with our community, like you so famously ordered me to do so.

HEY guys lets stop looking upon Kobe Bryant, Phelps, and other athletes because they are not helping out with the fighting in congo. Yep, they are the same thing as rapists and other people not helping out. They both arent setting any to no examples.


Cant discuss this with you anymore, it hurts my brain. Its just so depressing, just re read what you said Harman, you over extend WAY TOO MUCH.



Malcolm X and MLK into one, in Mandela? WOW. How could you say that? Did you know any of the three by any chance? Wow, how can you make that comparison. Explain to me that statement.
 

campy614

New Member
Messages
666
I say this person's name not as a Catholic, but as a humanitarian (or at least an aspiring humanitarian). Mother Teresa of Calcutta, for her service to others.
 

HarmanSingh

New Member
Messages
531
Capitalizing random words does not make your argument any stronger.

The fact is, Jordan had unbelievable power and influence in America when he was at his prime. The man was the face of not only sports, but fashion and entertainment. I think that is not something anyone would deny.

After you continue to rag on everyone on this forum for inaction and general apathy towards Punjab and its problems, you are going to tell me that Jordan, a man who had/has more power than any of us will probably ever have is not expected to do anything to help his community? The man could have made real change with just a statement, but he never spoke out against so many of the problems which have consumed the inner city to this day. So I guess you don't expect anything of us either do you? I mean, we aren't necessarily doing anything to HURT the situation in Punjab, we are just sitting by quietly much like Jordan.

Also, try and read what I said. Jordan has done as much for the black community as Soldier Boy. Soldier boy is like 18 or so. Jordan, through his entire life has never mentioned anything of significance to his community. I hold a grown man with unbelievable power and influence to a higher standard than a 19 year old rapper. Sorry, but that is just me. And keep in mind, I said we as Indians have no right to tell a black man he is not allowed to use the N word. I didn't say I support it. But that you have to keep in mind that the black community has been opressed for so long in what they can/cannot say, what they can/cannot do and what they can/cannot be, and for us to continue to tell them such things is obviously hitting a sensitive point. You are failing to acknowledge the other side. Plus, these rappers use these words and make these songs as art. But anyways, this conversation is completely changing to one we have already had, so I won't go there.

Jordan contributed to social problems by buying into the consumerist and materialistic culture which was killing so many black folks, and did not do anything to be a part of the solution.

I don't know if you remember or not, but their was a huge outrage over the Nike company and its use of underage children in Southeast Asia working for terrible pay and under horrible conditions. MJ did not care ONE BIT about this issue, and continued to make profit off these kids. He had enough power within that company and within society where a simple public statement by Nike's golden ticket would have forced them to make changes to their exploitative, SLAVE LIKE conditions in Southeast Asia. But he didn't. He knew that would hurt business. That is not a role model.

When Harvey Gannt (an African American) of NC ran for a US Senate seat against Jesse Helms, an unapologetic racist who called himself a redneck and was proud of his opposition to the Civil Rights bill of 64 and a man who fillibustered school integration and the Voting Rights Act, Jordan REFUSED to publicly endorse Gannt, even as Gannt pleaded with him. MJ's famous quote is "Republicans buy shoes too." That is not a role model. He sold out his own race and community for money.

Ali gave up his title and MILLIONS because he was morally against the Vietnam war. MJ sold his own people down the river for shoe sales, and did not give a damn about those in Southeast Asia who he exploited for his shoes. The fact that he dresses in suits and says yes sir to the white man does not mean he is a better role model than someone with baggy pants and corn rows. Read up on him then tell me hes a good role model. So many in the black community, scholars included, have great distaste for MJ because of these things.

His excessive gambling isn't exactly a great personal trait or role model characteristic either. I didn't compare him to a rapist or a killer, so lets drop the absurdity. I didn't say he was an evil person, but just someone I PERSONALLY would not look up to. I guess that is a difference between you and me then, I think he has a responsibility to use his power and influence to help people and you don't. I mean if that is a role model to you, thats great. If it depresses you to read that I think he should do something positive, then I don't know what to tell you. But its funny you are fighting so hard to prove he is not at all at fault, while you directly point fingers at people on this forum saying we are ruining Punjabi culture by not doing anything.

How is Jordan a role model for passively watching his community's demise while we on this forum are terrible people for passively watching OUR culture demise? Especially when Jordan could create real change in Chicago and around the world by simply speaking, whereas we have very comparative little influence over the problems in Punjab.

In regards to Mandela, Yeah, I said he has the characteristics of MLK and Malcolm X. Tell me how his involvement in the MK is not similar to Malcolm. He was a part of what was perceived to be a radical violent group which was not afraid to pick up arms and resist against oppression. This mentality of never bowing down in the face of oppression or accommodating to the majority is seen in both Malcolm and Mandela. This "violent side" was something both men saw as necessary at the time (although Mandela later changed his views) and it was controversial and courageous for them to not be afraid of taking up arms to face their oppressors. He is also similar to MLK for his views on forgiving those who have wronged you and for looking to peace and acceptance in a world where their is no difference based on skin color.

And finally, "you have been a pseudo me, but without all the, you know, reading and facts." I don't know what to say to that except that the apology you made earlier about the bad karma you were putting out was apparently a sad attempt at gaining attention. It is sad when a person is so defensive and angry all the time. Your ego is out of this world, and for you to be attacking a Sikh brother in that way is nothing short of disgusting in my mind. I suggest you go back to the person who told you about how your ego was getting too big, and let them explain to you again how the negative energy and ill will you put out comes back to you. I said absolutely nothing to attack you in this thread or others, but you continue to be combative. Try and get off your "Chicago law school and scholar in politics, sports, religion, literature" high horse and try and be a genuine person.
 

Kamran786

New Member
Messages
49
Summy said:
One more thing about Malcolm X, so many people enjoyed or loved his stance, but I am sure that Waleed would agree, that the majority of those people practice exactly what he preached against.

Just saying, those who admire certain figures do not necessarily believe those figures are influential enough to change the way one may live, so those figures that changed you would be who I directed that question at.
Absolutely true. Take all of us for example. Most of us here are Muslim,Sikh, or Hindu. Most of us still drink,fornicate,deal in interest,hold on to our family names (Jatt,syed,etc.),backbite,smoke, or do other things against the teachings of those whom we admire the most. These are just a few violations we may make. Please keep in mind that I listed random and various violations that apply to Hinduism,Sikhism, OR Islam. So I am not making a blanket statement with these sins.

In other words, nearly no one adheres to every word their most admired leader has taught them.
 

Summy

New Member
Messages
11
Harman, Harman, Harman, wow. Just keep digging yourself into a bigger hole. nobody said we should all look up to jordan as a role model. I am beginning to actually feel like you believe what you wrote, and you actually think it wasnta baseless statement. I think anyone who has any little knowledge of the culprits of societal desconstruction would realize that Micheal Jordan, a man who can shoot a basketball better than others, has a smaller responsibility to the world, then someone who uses language and words burnt into the skins of african males as a sense of edginess or coolness. Now lets get one thing straight, your a rap fan, and when you argue something that people idetify with so much, its gonna be hard to convince them otherwise.

While it hurts every bone in my body to discuss this, for the sake of development for you I will. Like I said, if you accussed Jordan of being a black male, not contributing or helping in the cause of his people, and being complacent, fine. Just I look at you, and others as being contributors to people who skew the meaning of a culture and adapt it to what they feel is right, it is understandable. What everyone fails to realize is HOW, his fame makes him MORE responsible, or demands him to be some sort of social activist. Paris Hilton, Every hollywood actor, I can go on forever and ever, who are GROWN MEN AND WOMEN, who are not involved in social causes... Shall we point the finger at them as well? It is such a ridicolous argument, and I know you feel that way as well. You said I have an ego, well our ego is clearly representative in your writing and the fact that you can actually say that bullshit and that crap to someone and think we are stupid enough to believe. Very similar to rap music, when they sell bullshit and expect people are uneducated and not informed to sift through that crap.

Celebrities and people in the spotlight have an obligation to be respectful and not act the fool. But to claim that you have NO respect for tiger woods and Jordan, because they are not social activists is offensive to my intellect. It is offensive to everyone who has bother to understand who are the culprits of the mess that is our social order. It is offensive to those who have spent their life understanding who is to blame for the mockery of their people. To point the finger at Jordan and Tiger Woods of all people, makes me sick. As athletes, as people that children may look up to, they have an obligation not to act a fool, and feel like they can do what they want, when they want. That is completely different than demanding that Jordan does something about the city he played basketball in and the drug use of those people. Thats fine that he is influential, nobody cares. Because you have this power, doesnt mean you are obliged to use it for social gains. It would be nice, but to hold the fame against them, to say that because you can shoot a basketball, you should have saved the youth from drug use, insults everything i have learned about.

I am speaking in such a low tone, because it hit me that this transfer of responsibility is such a problem. When someone can look at Micheal Jordan and look at him and say, look he was famous and did nothing to fix a drug problem, how much onus do they put on themselves? You think that fame is correlated to one's responsibility to social rights and social issues? Wow. What world are you living in? Its the fact that people point the fingers at the Jordans and Woods of the world, but so rightfully claim that each and every racial group should be segregated when it comes to racism, is what breeds the culture we have today. I can walk around using racist terms and paint them on a billboard, and I can constitute them as art, but in reality, it doesnt fly. Walk up to Barack Obama, call him your n word, and ask him not to be offended, and tell him let your own people dictate the usage of that word. If a white person, or a black erson knew the connotation of 12 baj gaye, or alloo, or towel head, or whatever they would call me, I would hope that they would stand up against the use of that word. Man what have we come to when all the educational and the institutions taht strive for the ecellence and the advancement for the black community say dont use the words that was burnt into the flesh of slaves as something positive, and are looked down upon it.

You will never convince to say that just because I am not part of the people that are being put down, that one should not stand up against racist terms. It is coming from the rap community as well, a community who has golrified drugs, sex, and even violence against other miniorities including women (not all that different from bhangra). If the NAACP, a group who had fought for civil rights and people gave their life, their blood and their everything for gaining those rights, tells you that the n word is THE MEANS OF OPPRESSION that the mainstream media can keep black people down with, how as a miniority can you say this is not our issue? Rap music is mainstream oppression. It golrifies, cars, guns, jewellery and other things that whites and governmental operation gain off of.


I cant educate someone who overextended, and said what you said. Its too large of a battle. When you have informed people, there are two types. Those who are willing to learn and comment on what they know, and those who have learned little but comment on everything. I would emplore you Harman to decide which avenue you would like to travel to. Your response will be something I said in the past, or your own take on how much of a joke it is that I ask people to sacrifice something for punjab, or how my philosophy is so easily mocked, but it means nothing to, especially after having this conversation with you. Next time you want to say that you said nothing to insult me and I have an ego, dont follow it up with insults, it kind of belittles your whole point.


For someone who recently became a gursikh, and recently tied a pugh on their head, just because you a sikh, doesnt make you my ideological bretheren. One thing you will realize is that there are people who tie pughs on their head but committ the most ultimate of sins. A brother of mine is someone who I know follows sikhi correctly, which I have no idea you do or not.
 

Vick

Member
Messages
990
I think Summy just wants all of us to show him some love and pick him to be our hero...
 

Summy

New Member
Messages
11
Vick said:
I think Summy just wants all of us to show him some love and pick him to be our hero...
Vick why do you keep on trying nobody has ever found you funny or laughed at anything youve ever said. Brother, you try way too hard.
 

Vick

Member
Messages
990
Summy, when will you give up and realize the BTF crowd is not nearly as intelligent or sophisticated as you, and frankly doesnt care to be?
 

Saleem

Administrator
Staff member
Messages
1,928
Vick said:
Summy, when will you give up and realize the BTF crowd is not nearly as intelligent or sophisticated as you, and frankly doesnt care to be?
If you are serious, I contend this statement. I've just learned that arguing with Summy is like a perpetual war, and only snippets of arguments are argued back to you, so even if an arbiter sided with me, Summy would still stand by his original, unchanging thought.
 

Summy

New Member
Messages
11
Saleem said:
Vick said:
Summy, when will you give up and realize the BTF crowd is not nearly as intelligent or sophisticated as you, and frankly doesnt care to be?
If you are serious, I contend this statement. I've just learned that arguing with Summy is like a perpetual war, and only snippets of arguments are argued back to you, so even if an arbiter sided with me, Summy would still stand by his original, unchanging thought.
And I have learned that when people say things that are biased, uneducated and have little to no backing except for their own skewed views on humanity, Id rather not evaluate it and let it slide. I have also learnt that people seem so eager for me to rebut their points, when my points are rarely ever looked at.

When you debate with people whose minds are made up over emotion and lack of true hard backings, they say things like Saleem just said. When you talk to someone with some sort of intellect father than their assigned readings for their 3rd year college courses, you get people who actually have a stance on matters.

Saleem, the posts you contribute to are and your actual posts, and I say this with the upmost respect, are very under evaluated. There are some people whose intelligence you respect even they differ from your own, but its hard to argue with someone when its one teaching someone else something the whole time.

Oh Vick brother, I realized LONG LONG ago that the BTF crowd is not nearly as intelligent or sophisticated as lets say a NAMBLA meeting.
 

Vick

Member
Messages
990
Saleem said:
Vick said:
Summy, when will you give up and realize the BTF crowd is not nearly as intelligent or sophisticated as you, and frankly doesnt care to be?
If you are serious, I contend this statement. I've just learned that arguing with Summy is like a perpetual war, and only snippets of arguments are argued back to you, so even if an arbiter sided with me, Summy would still stand by his original, unchanging thought.
No, I figure that if you praise him and feed his ego, he might just give up his aspirations that one day all BTF members will become Swami's and save the world... There has to be something that can change Summy... Pills? Narcotics? Hookers?
 

Summy

New Member
Messages
11
Believe me if I needed someone to feed my ego it wouldnt be a puppy loving sharks fan that would boast my ego. That would bring it down if anything.

Vick when you look back at your adolescent, lets say when your like 35, and all that weed, WWE, and undertaker posters come back to bit you in the ass, how are you gonna feel.

This is not in regards to me, but in general in life, Its very easy when you stand up against someone alot higher up then you to say, psshhhh, hes wack anyways, then try to climb your way up, dont you agree kumar saab?
 

Vick

Member
Messages
990
Summy said:
Believe me if I needed someone to feed my ego it wouldnt be a puppy loving sharks fan that would boast my ego. That would bring it down if anything.

Vick when you look back at your adolescent, lets say when your like 35, and all that weed, WWE, and undertaker posters come back to bit you in the ass, how are you gonna feel.

This is not in regards to me, but in general in life, Its very easy when you stand up against someone alot higher up then you to say, psshhhh, hes wack anyways, then try to climb your way up, dont you agree kumar saab?
Summy what are you talking about? I dont do weed, I dont watch WWE and I dont care about the undertaker... hahaha.... I'm always looking out for your brother... I'm only doing this for you, I wouldn't do it for anyone else. This is a place for intelligent, wealthy, and for people are just kind of frustrated with life... I'm not a psychologist or anything, but you seem a little frustrated...

For you Summy....http://www.bunnyranch.com/index1.html
 

Summy

New Member
Messages
11
Vivek Kumar Ramgopal Sharma, I still think your a good person. I like to read your posts whenever I need a pick me up. Its like... you know... well at least im not..... Vikram Kumar, my delhi walay gangster, common we both know im better than you in every manner right brother. Its like you try to play everything off as like, YOOO SON ITS LIKE YOO BRO, EVERYTHINGS COOL BRO, LIKE YO SUMMY GET LAID BRO... I always think in my mind, haha, this kid is a goof.

Your hang up seems to be on sexual actions, which probably means you got some recently for the first time in 20 some odd years and feel like your on top of the world. Its like when the kid in grade 8 who got touched for the first time walks around going, ohhhh yeah what have you done. Calm down Vikram Kumar, congrats on bhabi letting you reach second base.

KUMAR SAAB kese bolta ho aap apke dev rani ke sath... aye hai meri dev rani, kya karta ho aap, meri lulli ko solau, muhje summy ko kaana chaata hai ke mujhe bahot khushi time mili thi ajjh

Vikram, no hard feelings brother, keep doing what your doing, it will hit you one day.
 

Summy

New Member
Messages
11
Turbo said:
You know, for someone who calls themselves a Sikh Summy, you talk a whole lot of shit and talk down to others. These last couple posts towards Vick are so ridiculous that you sound like you really are a 12 yr old kid. You might not be, but seriously man, get a life. For someone who is an educated law student, I'm sure you can find something better to do than to talk shit to some random people on the internet.
When you become a sikh, then critsize one, until then, I would appreciate if you keep your comments about sikhi and sikhs to yourself thanks. Dance brother, just dance, dont get too high now puth, jaa nachla. I dont even know who you are turbo, so, you know, bye.

Me and Vick go back and forth, because there are no hard feelings. He knows I laugh at his lifestyle and his way of life, and he laughs at my attempts at intellectualism in his mind. Its all good, he is one of the few people that I feel good about humanity after I talk to. I feel like, wow maybe people can be forever young.
 

Vick

Member
Messages
990
Summy, how many different names can you address one person by? haha... For the record, my name is Vivak Kumar... Yes it's with an "A" not an "E"... You've managed to avoid the NHL thread for a while these days... Still trying to come up with a line or two about how the Sharks are just on a fluke 23 game run?
 
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