all girls team vs. co-ed

[sulmoney]

haha i was DEF being sarcastic...anytime a topic like this comes up, i always make the same "girls shouldnt do bhangra", as a lot of you know how ive been rolling the past couple years and this coming year as well too, but i do it hoping to get that sort of reaction out of people like i got from parul, just to make me laugh inside, but you got a real life el oh el out of me, so +1 for you parul haha ...

but for legit, this is good topic, and it is something i have previous experience with, as with orange bhangra, we did go from coed to all girls (and this year, we will be going back to coed). being an all girls bhangra team is very difficult at times, and is something i would advise to think about very seriously if you are coed. the only reason orange went from coed to all girls is that the girls had some previous experience, while the guys were basically starting all new. we had a competition coming up, and we were in no position to compete with that roster, so the decision was made for that competition to go all girls, with the notice to the guys to work on their game and get up to the par with the girls, and we would go back to coed when that happened. as it turned out, the guys basically disbanded and the all girls orange was born. then last year, we reached out to other girls we know and basically became an independent all girls team.

like i said before, going all girls is a double edged sword. there are many competitions that see you as an all girls team and from a comp organizer's perspective, will accept you based just on that, as they need to make up a varied roster. however, there is (and always will be) a gender bias in bhangra, and it is way more likely to see a competition made up of all guys teams rather than a competition made up of all girls teams. so with team selection, girls teams are competing against themselves for spots. there were competitions that we applied to that we did not get in, but another all girls team would get in over us, taking that sole (token) all girls team spot.

i have said it many times before, and stand by it, i love working with all girls teams, and will not work with any all guys teams. like much of what you said parul, girls tend to be hungrier in regards to showing that they can do bhangra, and do it well. when there was the shift to a lot of all guys teams, and only all guys teams were placing, a lot of more than capable girls were being pushed to the side unfairly. it was ridiculous, and i hope that we reach a place where girls in bhangra are treated as equivalents to male, and that we can have competitions and shows where teams aren't judged/selected by if they are comprised of only men, but by their ability to perform and execute bhangra properly. there, thats my rant!

 

[sulmoney]

oh yeah, jeeti, i got you on smd action

 

[Arjun Barua]

A good coed team gets along off stage because it shows onstage.

Hahahaha, VCU had to learn the hard way. VIBC '06. Ring a bell, Bobby?

 

[Havish]

Hahahaha, VCU had to learn the hard way. VIBC '06. Ring a bell, Bobby?

Lets not bring that up again... way too much drama there...

 

[mafzal]

Oh mannnn what kind of alternate dimension have I been in? This is my experience. Just my own experience... Though I admit it has been heavily influenced by my personal situations lately and certain people

- Girls way hungrier than guys - cuz we gotta prove that we just as good [or possibly better]
- Girls way less emotional - to prove that we strong and we're tough when it comes down to business
- Our girls take criticism better than guys. No excuses, no talking about it, no arguing, just get it right
- Way more guy/girl fights than inter-girl fights
- Girls pay more attention to detail
- Girls willing to sacrifice more

Meistro, I get what you're saying, though. Guess I'm just disappointed by it.

 

[pluthra]

Parul --- I always wonder what "GIRLS" thought of being on a co-ed or all girls.

Last year I did the all girls thing and honestly I loved it.
had lots of fun with them...these girls were eager to learn which made it even better
If i get enough girls this year...I would do that without a doubt.

hey somia...me and mariam started off as an all girls team but didnt have enough girls...i definetly like the aspect of bein on an all girls team b/c of the fact the girls are eager to learn and u dont have to deal w/so many arguements

but i gotta say if i had to choose rite now i wud stay co-ed.....sure teams fight and all but its when u make it through the fight it shows that ur team is strong......fights are actually good (this is stated somewhere by some1 w/a professional background on relationships, etc) its a way to vent wats been on ur mind....and personally i kno im the kind of person that mite keep it bottled up and when uve got me mad i blow up and let everythin i see wrong bout the team, a routine, a person out......but bein on a co-ed teaches u alot bout ppl in general

haha i was DEF being sarcastic...anytime a topic like this comes up, i always make the same "girls shouldnt do bhangra", as a lot of you know how ive been rolling the past couple years and this coming year as well too, but i do it hoping to get that sort of reaction out of people like i got from parul, just to make me laugh inside, but you got a real life el oh el out of me, so +1 for you parul haha ...

like i said before, going all girls is a double edged sword. there are many competitions that see you as an all girls team and from a comp organizer's perspective, will accept you based just on that, as they need to make up a varied roster. however, there is (and always will be) a gender bias in bhangra, and it is way more likely to see a competition made up of all guys teams rather than a competition made up of all girls teams. so with team selection, girls teams are competing against themselves for spots. there were competitions that we applied to that we did not get in, but another all girls team would get in over us, taking that sole (token) all girls team spot.

i have said it many times before, and stand by it, i love working with all girls teams, and will not work with any all guys teams. like much of what you said parul, girls tend to be hungrier in regards to showing that they can do bhangra, and do it well. when there was the shift to a lot of all guys teams, and only all guys teams were placing, a lot of more than capable girls were being pushed to the side unfairly. it was ridiculous, and i hope that we reach a place where girls in bhangra are treated as equivalents to male, and that we can have competitions and shows where teams aren't judged/selected by if they are comprised of only men, but by their ability to perform and execute bhangra properly. there, thats my rant!

its ok dont worry we all tend to rant at 1 point or another....ur post is amazing and inspirartional and just to a woman but shud be to every1 (ppl say this all the time-the whole excecution and and all and how u have to be motivated or else it wont show-but the way u said it was definetly my favorite) and u are now 1 of my role models and go among the list of rosie the riveter and all....and ur a feminist too rnt u???? dont deny it....be proud and say it.....im not sayin a radical feminist-im not even a radical feminist thats crazyyy

but yoo +1 for me...i got a better idea...if u take ur team out for ice-cream yo i want an ice cream cone too instead of a +1

 

[Jeeti]

Everyone is going to have their reasons for being on Coed/Guys/Girls teams but it all comes down to how close you are with your team members. From my experiences you can be honest with all guys more than with girls because with guys, its seems like they understand the fact that I am telling them something so they can get better, whereas girls seem more to take it personally. This seems to lead to what some people mentioned that all guys teams practices are hardcore because mistakes are fixed faster whereas with coed teams things usually turn into arguments. But all of this can be fixed with a coed team, if your team chemistry is correct then there should be no problem.

Parul, the list you gave as reasons for being on a girls team in your first post for this topic, I would have to say that most of those things you can do on a coed team too. You might not be able to share cloths with guys but you do have other girl team members...

A good coed team gets along off stage because it shows onstage.

Havish has said it best....team chemistry...it shouldn't be about guy or girl which is the reason I thought a whole unresolvable can or worms was opened (couch Parul cough)....guys on guys teams that get along with their teammates are going to defend that dynamic obviously, and visa versa...that being said...

Mariam...to make claims that Girls are willing to sacrifice more, girls pay more attention to detail...etc...lets chalk it up to a case by case situation based on the PERSON not on the sex...because on the co-ed team I was apart of for four years... we had dancers coming in and out as most do...and you never really know what you are gonna get..one year we had a super committed guy and a not so committed girl (people have their reasons..school, job, etc)...and one year we had a super committed girl and an ehhhh guy (same reasons as previously mentioned)...SOOO Havish is absolutely correct.....team chemistry is money...whatever you are comfy with...go with it...it will prove successful and much less stressful if everyone gets along...or at least can tolerate each other...also things are much more efficient when you have a team with good chemistry

Sulman...i can't wait for you to SMD...and also...your rant was well stated, but we must all realize that we are still a very long way away from girls teams being treated fairly versus guys team...especially now where there is strong move towards traditionality...because traditiionally according to some....women = giddha. This is not my personal opinion...but its the way it is.....

oh...and the "eager to get better" statement is also solely based on personal experience..I'm sure there are members of guys teams on here (myself included) that can give you tons of examples of new guys that joined the team truly committed to learning.

 

[Meistro]

jeeti ur so sexy when u talk like that

 

[Havish]

Jeeti makes a good point, you can't just declare men or women but it goes down to each situation. From my experience I have met guys and girls who are really committed and all the things you want in a team member but I have also found guys and girls that are the opposite who just don't give a sh*t. It all depends on the person.

 

[Waleed]

i have said it many times before, and stand by it, i love working with all girls teams, and will not work with any all guys teams.
-Sulmoney

Why you ask? Please refer to the last clip on the SOB TV Pao Bhangra video.

I was on a co-ed team (Geneseo) and after I graduated, the team became all girls for a semester (due to lack of male dancers). I def agree with the notion that an all girls team practices harder and is more motivated. In Geneseo's case, the girls realized that they had to work extra hard to get noticed and their try out video had to really stand out. There is no doubt, a slight bias that all girl teams have to work against which in turn results in them killing it on stage. Just check out UBC girls, NBA, SOB, Shernian Di Shan... if you judge them purely based on energy on stage, all girl teams on average rank higher than a lot of other notable teams.

 

[kamdeol]

ahh, there is so much to that could be said about this topic but has already been said. everything goes on a case by case basis. being on a co-ed team for the past couple of years, there have been a lot of people that have come on and off this team, and how well it runs and the experience you have really depends on the chemistry between the members of the team.

I've seen guys and girls that toke it personally when I tried to correct them on a step, and there have been arguments between guys and girls, as well as arguments between guys and guys but again its all dependent upon the chemistry of the people on the team. i can really say though that the girls held it down all of the girls, and some of the guys, really did show a lot of drive and a lot of dedication to learning the routine and doing everything properly, so even that can't be generalized to just girls or just guys. what i did notice is that a lot of people, mainly the guys, that come onto the team thinking they already know everything there is to know about bhangra would shut out other peoples opinions and not listen when we tried to correct them, while more people that were new and didnt have previous experience were more open to criticism and easier to teach.

a lot of it has to do with the team members respect for each other and keeping your lines of communication open. there were times on our team where people had personal issues with other people on the team, and were mature enough to leave their drama for outside of practice. i think it all just has to do with what each person on the team is looking for and if everyone else is on the same page, as well as how dedicated each team member is.

 

[pluthra]

Havish has said it best....team chemistry...it shouldn't be about guy or girl which is the reason I thought a whole unresolvable can or worms was opened (couch Parul cough)....guys on guys teams that get along with their teammates are going to defend that dynamic obviously, and visa versa...that being said...

Mariam...to make claims that Girls are willing to sacrifice more, girls pay more attention to detail...etc...lets chalk it up to a case by case situation based on the PERSON not on the sex...because on the co-ed team I was apart of for four years... we had dancers coming in and out as most do...and you never really know what you are gonna get..one year we had a super committed guy and a not so committed girl (people have their reasons..school, job, etc)...and one year we had a super committed girl and an ehhhh guy (same reasons as previously mentioned)...SOOO Havish is absolutely correct.....team chemistry is money...whatever you are comfy with...go with it...it will prove successful and much less stressful if everyone gets along...or at least can tolerate each other...also things are much more efficient when you have a team with good chemistry

Sulman...i can't wait for you to SMD...and also...your rant was well stated, but we must all realize that we are still a very long way away from girls teams being treated fairly versus guys team...especially now where there is strong move towards traditionality...because traditiionally according to some....women = giddha. This is not my personal opinion...but its the way it is.....

oh...and the "eager to get better" statement is also solely based on personal experience..I'm sure there are members of guys teams on here (myself included) that can give you tons of examples of new guys that joined the team truly committed to learning.

wat can of worms???? its a great topic-shows how ppl think these days...i was tryin to see the different perspectives ppl have.....urs was definetly amazing jeeti.......btw uhmmm uhmm cough coughh u mite want take some cough medicine

and does the traditionality for women=gidha...is that referin to me???----im guessin it is....but hey nvr said that its a prime element to include...i just like watchin gidha teams-thats y i like the idea of an all girls team.....guys r great too to watch....gidha team vs. a guys bhangra team luv em both

but definetly ill nvr open a can of worms again (maybe)....but definetly bhangra shudnt be defined by all girls/all guys/or guy/girl.............its defined by the individuals who can show their obsession for bhangra when they dance...so as long u guys/girls show that we'll love u all

 

[Vick]

Girls practice harder and all that because guys are just better dancers man... I don't know how else to put it... If the girls didn't work as hard as they do, we would probably have only all guys teams... The girls need to practice hard, its not a matter of choice, they HAVE TO do it...

 

[ban3rg]

I believe guys have an advantage when doing Bhangra because 1) their costume involves Paggs, (specifically the turla is what helps) whereas girls' costumes do not. This makes them all look taller and their jackets make them look wider and bigger (in general men are wider/taller/larger than women anyway). The paggs really make them stand out and (as we all know) the turla accentuates head movements. SO, guys doing bhangra looks larger (takes up more stage space or catches the eye more) than girls....so on a Co-ED team the guys are bound to be "looked at" more because your eye is drawn to larger objects.

2) since men are generally larger (just biologically speaking), when they do moves with sapps or daangs, their wider wingspan helps em look bigger, too. they can open saaps wider, hold daangs higher, etc.

SO, in this sense, Guys teams may have an "Unfair (?)" advantage over girls teams --- even if they move slower or with less energy, than girls, since their body size and costume size is larger they may look faster or more energetic.

Imagine a coed video from Columbia, Rutgers, or VCU for example (yeah, yeah, Blowout is coming to my mind right now)...when you watch the video and the dance starts off, which set of dancers are your eyes drawn to? Generally I have to consciously look for the girls because they get hidden by their larger male counterparts. Of course, once I do pay attention to the women, I am amazed and I enjoy their energy and grace - sometimes they even dance a lot better than the guys but because of height/width its harder to catch.

 

[Jeeti]

Havish has said it best....team chemistry...it shouldn't be about guy or girl which is the reason I thought a whole unresolvable can or worms was opened (couch Parul cough)....guys on guys teams that get along with their teammates are going to defend that dynamic obviously, and visa versa...that being said...

Mariam...to make claims that Girls are willing to sacrifice more, girls pay more attention to detail...etc...lets chalk it up to a case by case situation based on the PERSON not on the sex...because on the co-ed team I was apart of for four years... we had dancers coming in and out as most do...and you never really know what you are gonna get..one year we had a super committed guy and a not so committed girl (people have their reasons..school, job, etc)...and one year we had a super committed girl and an ehhhh guy (same reasons as previously mentioned)...SOOO Havish is absolutely correct.....team chemistry is money...whatever you are comfy with...go with it...it will prove successful and much less stressful if everyone gets along...or at least can tolerate each other...also things are much more efficient when you have a team with good chemistry

Sulman...i can't wait for you to SMD...and also...your rant was well stated, but we must all realize that we are still a very long way away from girls teams being treated fairly versus guys team...especially now where there is strong move towards traditionality...because traditiionally according to some....women = giddha. This is not my personal opinion...but its the way it is.....

oh...and the "eager to get better" statement is also solely based on personal experience..I'm sure there are members of guys teams on here (myself included) that can give you tons of examples of new guys that joined the team truly committed to learning.

wat can of worms???? its a great topic-shows how ppl think these days...i was tryin to see the different perspectives ppl have.....urs was definetly amazing jeeti.......btw uhmmm uhmm cough coughh u mite want take some cough medicine

and does the traditionality for women=gidha...is that referin to me???----im guessin it is....but hey nvr said that its a prime element to include...i just like watchin gidha teams-thats y i like the idea of an all girls team.....guys r great too to watch....gidha team vs. a guys bhangra team luv em both

but definetly ill nvr open a can of worms again (maybe)....but definetly bhangra shudnt be defined by all girls/all guys/or guy/girl.............its defined by the individuals who can show their obsession for bhangra when they dance...so as long u guys/girls show that we'll love u all

yes...it is a great topic...i will be taking cough medicine do not worry haha...the tradionality comment was just a general statement because in the past we have had serious issues with some very traditional judges during feedback strongly implying that girls should not be doing bhangra ( I don't remember who the controversy was over , but it was over whether girls should slap their thigh or not, and it escalated from there...)..its basically just a reason why the bias continues to exist.

 

[NavDheri]

i sort of skimmed through most of the posts (so i might not make sense )


but i've been on both all guy team and a co-ed team (current). i actually LOVE being on a co-ed team...maybe its just the people on my team...but we have tons of fun. On an all guy team...you do tend to practice more harder and serious...(idunno about all girls team...) but co-ed you def have more fun.

Yes you have to watch what you say...but once you get close enough to each other (like my team has) you talk about almost everything and anything.

 

[dheerja]

Um Sulman definitely did NOT take us for ice cream. What a horrible team captain.


Haha anyway, thought I'd put my two cents in. The whole guys vs. girls debate is a little pointless in terms of dancing skill, dedication, etc. because everyone starts making massive generalizations based on their personal experiences. You can always find a counter example to any of the points made.

BUT when it comes to guys/girls/coed teams and their success/reception on the bhangra circuit, there are definitely some common experiences. I've been on both a coed team and an all girls team and I thoroughly enjoyed both experiences. When it comes to all girls teams there is definitely a glass ceiling. Aside from the usual sexism and "girls shouldn't do bhangra", I think it comes from the dancing style that most all girls teams take on. Teams like NBA and UBC have that high energy and fast paced style that is reminiscent of a lot of coed teams. These girls teams do well in competitions because that style suits the way most girls already dance bhangra. If you watch some of the best female dancers they really own the dance when they perform this style (Jasmine from Mich/LBC is a good example).

The tricky part is when competitions and judges emphasize traditionality. All guys teams are always the front runners for these competitions because they work at perfecting the grace and smoothness of the slower segments in traditional dances. Now that the demand for traditionality has increased, girls teams that perform the more modern, fast paced style simply aren't as successful. I think the next step is for all girls teams to really work at adopting the grace that some all guys teams have accomplished. Until the actual dancing style is transformed to rival that of guys teams, all girls teams will continue to place under guys teams.

 

[pluthra]

I believe guys have an advantage when doing Bhangra because 1) their costume involves Paggs, (specifically the turla is what helps) whereas girls' costumes do not. This makes them all look taller and their jackets make them look wider and bigger (in general men are wider/taller/larger than women anyway). The paggs really make them stand out and (as we all know) the turla accentuates head movements. SO, guys doing bhangra looks larger (takes up more stage space or catches the eye more) than girls....so on a Co-ED team the guys are bound to be "looked at" more because your eye is drawn to larger objects.

2) since men are generally larger (just biologically speaking), when they do moves with sapps or daangs, their wider wingspan helps em look bigger, too. they can open saaps wider, hold daangs higher, etc.

SO, in this sense, Guys teams may have an "Unfair (?)" advantage over girls teams --- even if they move slower or with less energy, than girls, since their body size and costume size is larger they may look faster or more energetic.

Imagine a coed video from Columbia, Rutgers, or VCU for example (yeah, yeah, Blowout is coming to my mind right now)...when you watch the video and the dance starts off, which set of dancers are your eyes drawn to? Generally I have to consciously look for the girls because they get hidden by their larger male counterparts. Of course, once I do pay attention to the women, I am amazed and I enjoy their energy and grace - sometimes they even dance a lot better than the guys but because of height/width its harder to catch.

omgg i was thinkin bout thatt how guys have better outfits than girls...all the girls get is a suit, and some nice jewelry...that sucks.....guys get the full blown outfit makes me mad

also...ya guys definetly do look nicer doin the moves b/c their bigger and etc. and the whole height thing makes me maddddd.....but for the smallest person on the team (along w/mariam) we definetly gotta show that we can dance as well as any1


but i was watchin a few videos of co-ed teams.....i gotta say the girls r definetly boringggggggggg.....like i think some1 was doin sahiba/mirza or some song like that......but the guys had the better moves.....at times i hate the fact when if theres a song-where it implies a girl in it....the girls gotta do girly moves- like standing there just shakin their hip for 4 beats and the guys are doin amazingg movesss......also when those girly moves arent done well the girls look terrible and the guys look amazing......

 

[Arjun Barua]

Along the lines of what Arjun and Parul were saying, here's something I posted on POL in Feb. 2006.

http://www.punjabonline.com/servlet/community.discussions?Action=doDisplayTopic&Expand=-2&Tier=0&DID=35351&Param=35351&Category=1

 

[mafzal]

[In regards to your POL post]

I think NJ and UBC Girlz have somewhat already gone towards this, the way they wear chadar and vest and similar jewelry, plus UBC Girlz even wear phuman. However, maaajor problem with this is pure size, still :-\

Real-Life Stats

asd guy #1 - 6 foot, 160 lbs
asd guy #2 - 6 foot, 150 lbs

asd girl #1 - 5 foot, 100 lbs
asd girl #2 - 5 foot, 95 lbs

So I don't think this would work on a co-ed team but it could work if an all-girls team went towards traditionally male costumes. Not saying whether I think girls teams should or not, but it could possibly help. I also must agree that in pure bhangra comp, girls should do all bhangra - no giddha or anything.