Reaching Out to all **CURRENT** Dancers/Captains

[sdadoo15]

In light of the “What happened to the circuit?” thread and Howie bringing back his thread from last year, I want to reach out to all the CURRENT dancers and captains in the circuit and hear what people currently competing have to say about the way things are run. Looking at these couple of threads, it seems to be a lot of old BTF trolls (some still dancing, many not) saying that this circuit isn’t what it was in 2010. And yeah it may not be, but comparing the circuit now to 2010 clearly isn’t doing anything. Were a new circuit, with new dancers and new teams, and a new mentality when it comes to bhangra. There are without a doubt problems in the circuit, but trying to revert back to what it was in 2010 is not the solution.


So I’d like to hear from all the current dancers who don’t post or rarely post on here for whatever reason. Let the circuit know what you think needs to be changed so something can happen. I haven’t posted on here in a long time, but I am now and I definitely wanna hear from the rest of the people who don’t post as often. Here are a couple of suggestions about what I’ve seen just to start some discussion. But until this generation of dancers starts stimulating some conversation, not much about the circuit is going to change:


Videos: People, post ya damn videos. Please. Honestly, I’m glad Youtube has the unlisted feature, but let's be real it's kind of useless. People are going to find your videos one way or another, so what are you trying to hide? I, along with my co-captains for UNC, realized that we’re not doing anyone any favors by keeping our video a secret, so we will be releasing our Burgh video, and I really urge all teams from BBC and Burgh to do the same. The next wave of competitions isn’t until the end of January (Srujan, Reign of Bhangra, etc.), so I should hope that you have nothing to hide for whatever you prepare for the spring competitions.


Saying this, I think one of the biggest issues that I’ve seen the past couple of years (especially among collegiate teams) is that teams really aren’t changing their sets from comp to comp. And the biggest evidence of this is the fact that no one wants to release their video after a competition. I’m not sure what people are trying to hide when they don’t want to post their videos publicly, but lets put it at this: if you are afraid that shit in your set won’t hit the second time you do it, there’s a pretty solid chance that its probably not good enough to stay in the set anyway. Do a gimmick/dope choreo, let it hit wherever you go, and then go back to the drawing board and think of more. Or think of how to improve it for next time. It honestly does no one any favors to see a team bring the same set, or even a similar set, to multiple competitions.


***And if you feel that there isn’t enough time to change the majority of your set in between two competitions, DON’T AGREE TO GO TO SO MANY COMPETITIONS. Let other newer teams take your spot in lineups, because I guarantee everyone would rather see the set that these teams have been working on for a long ass time over the same set that you brought to a previous competition.


Judges: This is something that I’ve wanted to bring up for a while, but I am personally tired of seeing the same judges judging every competition. I understand each competition wants to accept the best judges that apply, so obviously that won’t change. But what we can change as a circuit is the judges that apply to each competition. I would love to see an unwritten rule in the bhangra circuit where judges can only judge one competition each semester. Again, for current judges and competitions out there: step aside and allow new judges to bring their insight to the table, let teams hear more than just the same 4-5 perspectives on their set. And competitions, please stop basing judging decisions on experience only. Is it important? No doubt. But it is also not the only important quality a judge needs. If judges can’t properly explain why they judged a team the way that they did (which happens very often), their experience becomes irrelevant. I’m not sure if some competitions do this, but maybe interviewing judges instead of just a Google doc resume application may allow for better judging selection?

Point System/”Nationals”: I know a lot of people have had this thought (it was brought up in the DDN captains group me), but since Elite isn’t really a thing anymore it would be awesome to consider having a point system or some sort of Nationals for teams to ultimately work towards getting invited to. Right now, all the circuit really has is Blowout/Bruin, but even that is barely “Nationals”. Something like this could very easily A) create more buzz around certain competitions, since more will be riding on each placing, B) give teams a common goal to work towards, and C) allow newer teams to compete in the non-bid or non-Nationals affiliated competitions.

Again these are just suggestions, ultimately meant to stimulate some conversation among the current dancers in the circuit. I don’t think the circuit is dead by any means, but it for sure isn’t heading in the right direction, and it’s up to the CURRENT dancers to fix it.

 

[sumeetj]

good post sahil -

i think the judging is also a big reason alot of teams don't post videos. despite the fact that most people end up getting their hands on videos that people don't want posted anyway, i know some judges will inevitably end up comparing your current performance to your previous one (which can be good, if you improved alot, but also bad, if your team did great at one competition and either had some mistakes at the next, or tried a couple of new segments that the judge wasn't a big fan of).

if more teams started posting videos, i think everyone would feel cooler about it in general. also, there is barely any commenting on videos these days, except some of the usual trolls giving "constructive" feedback in usually a pretty rude way and then being confused when people get upset. so i think alot of the feedback teams are hoping to get are done behind "closed doors" by sending videos to people they trust to give them an opinion.

totally agree with your point in judging, and i think there is something being worked on now that will hopefully help with that. after hearing inconsistent feedback (that changes based on who one is talking to), its frustrating and its really tough for someone to go back to their team and tell them what to do better next time.

in all, more transparency in general would be nicer, but is also tough to do. good dancers and leaders like you can bring a positive change to the circuit so people feel like their hard work is rewarded, if not by trophies, but concrete feedback and a respectable community.



on a sidenote, people need to stop being so rude to non-Punjabis who overlook some things in bhangra like using a song with a wrong meaning and other offenses of the nature - we should be happy that people spend hours and hours trying to perfect an art that came from our heritage and the only way to make sure it is respected the way you'd like it to is to treat those people with respect first. unfortunately, there is way more punjabi people doing disrespectful things at competitions (ie starting fights, booing other teams, etc) than non-punjabis, and i think that makes bhangra look way worse than a non-punjabis choosing the wrong song to dance to or something.

 

[A.JAGGI]

JUDGING:
There’s a reason to why many teams stopped going to the judges meeting.
First: competitions need a better way of hosting the judges meeting.
-Please don’t give me a rushed five minutes with every other team’s captain behind me a few feet away eying me down and counting down the seconds till I hit the five-minute mark and then they complain my team got an “unfair advantage”
You spend months making and training a set and then get five minutes to hear five different perspectives telling me why my teams efforts worked or did not work? Gandh.
**Perhaps a 10-15-minute video call the following week with each team’s captain?**
Next: The meeting itself.
-Please refrain from telling me where each one of the dancers messed up..that gives me nothing.
Already given a very small window of time to meet, please don’t spend it by telling me where, when, and how each dancer messed up. If I’m a team captain, I’m going to watch this performance numerous times and will catch where each one of my teammates messed up.
I completely agree that dancer mistakes play a big role in decisions but there’s a lot more to bhangra then mistakes.
Tell me about my set, where conceptually it fell apart, how the overall picture could look better, what can I do for my team’s execution to be at a higher level, what are my strengths, etc. All these points (if answered well) I can take back to my practice and make REAL changes.
***This is where your experience can help teams***
The only thing I come back for my team is “Hey, stop messing up”

VIDEOS: Most agree to post it, this however will not change any team’s decision. They’ll do what they want. It’s up to comps and videographers to release them regardless of the teams wants to bring change in this category.

“ And if you feel that there isn’t enough time to change the majority of your set in between two competitions, DON’T AGREE TO GO TO SO MANY COMPETITIONS. Let other newer teams take your spot in lineups, because I guarantee everyone would rather see the set that these teams have been working on for a long ass time over the same set that you brought to a previous competition.”
PREACH.

 

[Gsimz]

I really appreciated what Bhangra in The 6ix did with their judges meeting. Once all the judges had finished talking, Prabh (SPD captain and organizer) asked us if we were satisfied with the feedback provided and said we didn't have to leave until we felt satisfied. Having a short period of window has left me and many other captains confused with many unanswered questions. I understand there is a rush to get out of the venue and reach the after party, but captains deserve to get most of their questions answered. More competitions should follow this example

 

[mithu]

I'm not touching on anything but judging:


Till judges who give their view on thing, I don't think teams have the right to speak.
Judges are bashed non-stop, but here's the thing: the second judges speak about their honest experience don't expect them to be judge again.


Judges meeting pre and post comp are a waste of time, in this era emails to teams from the judges with full details are much better than a few minutes. A meeting before a compt is not going to change a single thing for as team.

 

[Gsimz]

I think pre judges meetings only make sense if it's done the way WBBC and Bruin do it. A month or two prior to the comp to go through the entire rubric and ask judges questions certainly helps. The night before you can't really change anything lol.

 

[ManrajBajwa]

I totally agree on some aspect that you pointed out.I have been watching videos from the American,UK and Australian Circuit.What I notice is that everyone has their own way of doing things,their own style.I think its time for all 3 circuits to work together and set bhangra in one direction.Regarding on judges judging based on their experience,this happens because there is no judging organisation that is established to guide new judges on what are the criteria to judges for.Different competition has different rubrics system.It is obvious that captains will listen to judges on how to improve their team during the feedback session.Some judge say, you should add gimmicks in your set and some judges say you should not add gimmicks.So its time for judges to be united and form a judging organisation so that new judges shall be trained on how bhangra should be.In that case all judges would have a similar direction to judge bhangra.


This is my suggestion:
1.Form an organisation to unite all judges and discuss how should bhangra be.
2.Comps should be registered under this organisation to be recognize.
3.Comps that are registered should receive the standardize rubic system.
4.Judges who are judging in recognized comps are strictly required to follow the standard set by the judging organisation.

I know this post might offend some judges,organizer,captains, and members, but this ONLY MY SUGGESTION there are other ways of doing it.If everyone has a motive to set bhangra in that one direction then this situation would be solved easily.

 

[siddyp]

I totally agree on some aspect that you pointed out.I have been watching videos from the American,UK and Australian Circuit.What I notice is that everyone has their own way of doing things,their own style.I think its time for all 3 circuits to work together and set bhangra in one direction.Regarding on judges judging based on their experience,this happens because there is no judging organisation that is established to guide new judges on what are the criteria to judges for.Different competition has different rubrics system.It is obvious that captains will listen to judges on how to improve their team during the feedback session.Some judge say, you should add gimmicks in your set and some judges say you should not add gimmicks.So its time for judges to be united and form a judging organisation so that new judges shall be trained on how bhangra should be.In that case all judges would have a similar direction to judge bhangra.


This is my suggestion:
1.Form an organisation to unite all judges and discuss how should bhangra be.
2.Comps should be registered under this organisation to be recognize.
3.Comps that are registered should receive the standardize rubic system.
4.Judges who are judging in recognized comps are strictly required to follow the standard set by the judging organisation.

I know this post might offend some judges,organizer,captains, and members, but this ONLY MY SUGGESTION there are other ways of doing it.If everyone has a motive to set bhangra in that one direction then this situation would be solved easily.

I understand the sentiment, but it takes away from the competition diversity. It's what makes Bruin, Bruin, and MCB, MCB. Let comps and organizers choose what style of bhangra they want at their comps. One rubric style for all comps will take away from diversity and for certainly, make all teams looks the same.

 

[Gsimz]

^^I was just about to say that. I love the fact that the circuit has creative/modern comps and folk comps. Choice your choice of poison and don't feel obligated to stick to one type of comp. But if you're adamant about one style then stick to those comps.

 

[hardeep_singh]

on a sidenote, people need to stop being so rude to non-Punjabis who overlook some things in bhangra like using a song with a wrong meaning and other offenses of the nature - we should be happy that people spend hours and hours trying to perfect an art that came from our heritage and the only way to make sure it is respected the way you'd like it to is to treat those people with respect first. unfortunately, there is way more punjabi people doing disrespectful things at competitions (ie starting fights, booing other teams, etc) than non-punjabis, and i think that makes bhangra look way worse than a non-punjabis choosing the wrong song to dance to or something.

calling out willful ignorance is not rude, it's necessary. since i'm the most vocal person when it comes to this topic let me correct you a little bit, the mistake of using improper songs falls on a team as a whole, whether the members are punjabi or non-punjabi. if people can spend hours and hours "trying to perfect an art" then they can sure as hell take a few minutes to have someone knowledgeable listen to their mix and let them know if they're doing something stupid such as using a song entitled "jinda sukha anthem" in a mix for a lighthearted bhangra performance.

the song jinda sukha anthem is about two sikh punjabi men who chose to give up their normal lives in the name of seeking retribution for atrocities committed against innocent people due to the fact that institutionalized oppression made it impossible to seek any sort of punishment against those responsible for the atrocities. institutionalized oppression which spread as far as the police forces in every district in punjab. so imagine being a little kid and being on a bus with your parents and having your bus pulled over into a police compound. not knowing what the hell is going on but staying quiet because your parents are being quiet, then being let back on to the bus with no explanation for what the purpose of the stop was. all the situations where you're sitting in the back of a car traveling with your family to a gurudwara and being fully aware of the tension every time the car is stopped at a check point. thankfully growing up i wasn't exposed to the police abuse and atrocities committed in the name of rooting out rebellion that people in districts like tarn taran were exposed to. i learned about all this later in life but think about the fact that there may be people in an audience who may have lived through this, who may have been directly impacted by the chaos of that dark era in punjab. go ahead try to argue against that.

competitions should enforce the rule that any mix which contains any reference(s) to alcohol or drug use should result in point deduction.

 

[Mans]

***And if you feel that there isn’t enough time to change the majority of your set in between two competitions, DON’T AGREE TO GO TO SO MANY COMPETITIONS. Let other newer teams take your spot in lineups, because I guarantee everyone would rather see the set that these teams have been working on for a long ass time over the same set that you brought to a previous competition.

PREACH.


I've seen a couple teams release their videos at the end the year and then explain the reasoning behind have the exact same set for an entire Bhangra Season is that they don't have time to make new choreo. I understand that people get busy with their lives after college, working full time etc. but maybe at that point in life its time to let some of the new teams compete.

 

[angeblah]

Thanks for the thoughtful post, Sahil!

Point System/”Nationals”: I know a lot of people have had this thought (it was brought up in the DDN captains group me), but since Elite isn’t really a thing anymore it would be awesome to consider having a point system or some sort of Nationals for teams to ultimately work towards getting invited to. Right now, all the circuit really has is Blowout/Bruin, but even that is barely “Nationals”. Something like this could very easily A) create more buzz around certain competitions, since more will be riding on each placing, B) give teams a common goal to work towards, and C) allow newer teams to compete in the non-bid or non-Nationals affiliated competitions.

A couple thoughts crossed my mind--


[list type=decimal]
[*]How would this impact the ability for international teams, live teams, and independent collaborations (e.g. Tune Squad) to compete on high profile stages?
[*]How would you reconcile different approaches (i.e. live/music, folk/modern) under one bid system? Or would this necessarily require multiple systems?
[/list]
A national bid competition would be exciting, but it seems to me that other high profile competitions must exist outside this system in order to accommodate our circuit's team diversity.

 

[BhangraSUCKS]

The problem stems from people on this site who think they are English scholars, writing paragraphs upon paragraphs of bullshit that would make anyone cry if it was an actual school assignment we had to read through. I mean fuck sacks, have the managers of this website ever thought about widening the margins??? I have reading all this crap and then when I think I am almost to the end, I have to almost crush my eyeballs after noticing that the jerkoff has double spaced to enter new paragraphs of his ongoing bullshit.

I mean for christs sake, this is why I voted for Trump, too much bullshit, need to make things simple and go back to things that made bhangra kick ass: heavy tupac (I believe "gangster" is the operative word) on the bass, heavy drums "I believe there called dhols?", and just a guy expressing his anger through Punjabi song with gunshots in the background. That's the bhangra that everyone attached to, and I believe without such items, is the reason why bhangraSUCKS.

GO TRUMP

JOIN MY BHANGRA CLUB

 

[KushK]

The problem stems from people on this site who think they are English scholars, writing paragraphs upon paragraphs of bullshit that would make anyone cry if it was an actual school assignment we had to read through. I mean fuck sacks, have the managers of this website ever thought about widening the margins??? I have reading all this crap and then when I think I am almost to the end, I have to almost crush my eyeballs after noticing that the jerkoff has double spaced to enter new paragraphs of his ongoing bullshit.

I mean for christs sake, this is why I voted for Trump, too much bullshit, need to make things simple and go back to things that made bhangra kick ass: heavy tupac (I believe "gangster" is the operative word) on the bass, heavy drums "I believe there called dhols?", and just a guy expressing his anger through Punjabi song with gunshots in the background. That's the bhangra that everyone attached to, and I believe without such items, is the reason why bhangraSUCKS.

GO TRUMP

JOIN MY BHANGRA CLUB

LOL

 

[Howie Magz]

All these posts and you chose to be funny

The problem stems from people on this site who think they are English scholars, writing paragraphs upon paragraphs of bullshit that would make anyone cry if it was an actual school assignment we had to read through. I mean fuck sacks, have the managers of this website ever thought about widening the margins??? I have reading all this crap and then when I think I am almost to the end, I have to almost crush my eyeballs after noticing that the jerkoff has double spaced to enter new paragraphs of his ongoing bullshit.

I mean for christs sake, this is why I voted for Trump, too much bullshit, need to make things simple and go back to things that made bhangra kick ass: heavy tupac (I believe "gangster" is the operative word) on the bass, heavy drums "I believe there called dhols?", and just a guy expressing his anger through Punjabi song with gunshots in the background. That's the bhangra that everyone attached to, and I believe without such items, is the reason why bhangraSUCKS.

GO TRUMP

JOIN MY BHANGRA CLUB

 

[Jaskirat Multani]

Videos: People, post ya damn videos. Please. Honestly, I’m glad Youtube has the unlisted feature, but let's be real it's kind of useless. People are going to find your videos one way or another, so what are you trying to hide? I, along with my co-captains for UNC, realized that we’re not doing anyone any favors by keeping our video a secret, so we will be releasing our Burgh video, and I really urge all teams from BBC and Burgh to do the same. The next wave of competitions isn’t until the end of January (Srujan, Reign of Bhangra, etc.), so I should hope that you have nothing to hide for whatever you prepare for the spring competitions.

Seriously the most real comment on this thread. Unless you're going to 2 competitions less than a month apart from one another I don't see the point in not posting videos. You get no feedback and most likely people have already seen your unlisted video anyway. Nobody can force this issue, but I do believe that posting videos as soon as your set is done is the most progressive thing we can do for bhangra in America etc. Just think if you have something that really sets you apart in a video, or something that's entirely new, the rest of the community won't pick it up until you post it...months later. We should all post videos as soon as possible, and especially those teams with big names/longer history in the circuit.


Also wtf is feedback these days? Most people comment useless shit, or they boost their buddies on the thread. The rest of the comments are unwarranted useless critiques worse than what you get at the back of a judges meeting (often in a very rude manner). Not that I want to say "who asked for your opinion", but seriously who did? I would love if the Panjabi/bhangra community had more positive reinforcement. Instead of calling someone out on misusing a song in their mix why not point it out and become a reference for them in the future? Also private messaging critiques isn't what we should be doing.


Qualified senior members should be posting their critiques . Who knows that critique might actually help developing teams to improve as well. Or it might show people how they should be commenting on a thread.

As far as judging is concerned, I wish there were more qualified judges with sheer Panjabi knowledge/background. A lot of the segments, music and steps have a specific meaning behind them. Certain teams are able to show that meaning in their dance. Have you ever asked yourself why are they doing that? I usually find myself asking the same question when I see gimmicks. Some of these gimmicks are so off the wall that it ruins the rest of the set for me. But that's entirely a personal opinion of mine. Do what you want when it comes to choreographing your set. Anyway, judges should be able to understand and explain that meaning back to you in a judges meeting. Really they should be able to interpret that meaning and best advise you on how to improve on it the next time around.


Aside from Panjabi knowledge/background I believe judges with a musical background would really be beneficial to the growth of bhangra. Someone that understands the intricacies of the highs and lows within music can appreciate/explain how your set could flow better. Instead of just copy and pasting segments on top of your mix following some sort of structured dynamic...lol...,I believe, makes your set top class.


Senior members and active vets should be a beacon for the oncoming generation. If not you'll definitely see bhangra turn into something else entirely.

 

[sdadoo15]

I totally agree on some aspect that you pointed out.I have been watching videos from the American,UK and Australian Circuit.What I notice is that everyone has their own way of doing things,their own style.I think its time for all 3 circuits to work together and set bhangra in one direction.Regarding on judges judging based on their experience,this happens because there is no judging organisation that is established to guide new judges on what are the criteria to judges for.Different competition has different rubrics system.It is obvious that captains will listen to judges on how to improve their team during the feedback session.Some judge say, you should add gimmicks in your set and some judges say you should not add gimmicks.So its time for judges to be united and form a judging organisation so that new judges shall be trained on how bhangra should be.In that case all judges would have a similar direction to judge bhangra.


This is my suggestion:
1.Form an organisation to unite all judges and discuss how should bhangra be.
2.Comps should be registered under this organisation to be recognize.
3.Comps that are registered should receive the standardize rubic system.
4.Judges who are judging in recognized comps are strictly required to follow the standard set by the judging organisation.

I know this post might offend some judges,organizer,captains, and members, but this ONLY MY SUGGESTION there are other ways of doing it.If everyone has a motive to set bhangra in that one direction then this situation would be solved easily.

I understand the sentiment, but it takes away from the competition diversity. It's what makes Bruin, Bruin, and MCB, MCB. Let comps and organizers choose what style of bhangra they want at their comps. One rubric style for all comps will take away from diversity and for certainly, make all teams looks the same.

agree with sid here. my main reason for posting this wasn't to change the rubrics that each comp posts, that is 100% their decision and should reflect whatever style of bhangra they are trying to host. rather change up the judges from comp to comp. and most importantly, choose judges that will actually stick to the rubric, and choose judges who's styles actually match what the competition is going for.


ex. don't let some folk ass judge try to go to boston and adhere to that rubric. it'll only work until a certain point and then subjectivity will take over. i'd rather see a less experienced judge who's style matches the rubric over a more experienced judge picked just because of his/her experience.

 

[sdadoo15]

Also wtf is feedback these days? Most people comment useless shit, or they boost their buddies on the thread. The rest of the comments are unwarranted useless critiques worse than what you get at the back of a judges meeting (often in a very rude manner). Not that I want to say "who asked for your opinion", but seriously who did? I would love if the Panjabi/bhangra community had more positive reinforcement. Instead of calling someone out on misusing a song in their mix why not point it out and become a reference for them in the future? Also private messaging critiques isn't what we should be doing.


Qualified senior members should be posting their critiques . Who knows that critique might actually help developing teams to improve as well. Or it might show people how they should be commenting on a thread.

I definitely agree with the first paragraph here, we need better critiques on sets. honestly right now, we just need something. don't need to be long posts, but one or two things from 10-15 people can go a very long way.


what I don't necessarily agree with here is the second paragraph. i think the issue is all the new btf members are waiting for the "qualified senior members" to post their critiques before they insert their critiques. and that's where btf is dying in my opinion. new members are waiting for the qualified senior members to post, and the qualified senior members are either waiting on the new people or too out of the circuit to give active critiques. so even if new members don't have anything to really critique on, post anyway. say like one sentence at a time until you feel more comfortable critiquing. 2-3 years ago i started out on btf by commenting "this was fire" or "I liked this" etc, stupid stuff like that that probably didn't help the team in any way. but seeing that stuff is better than seeing nothing at all, and if that's what it takes to reignite btf then that's what it takes.

As far as judging is concerned, I wish there were more qualified judges with sheer Panjabi knowledge/background. A lot of the segments, music and steps have a specific meaning behind them. Certain teams are able to show that meaning in their dance. Have you ever asked yourself why are they doing that? I usually find myself asking the same question when I see gimmicks. Some of these gimmicks are so off the wall that it ruins the rest of the set for me. But that's entirely a personal opinion of mine. Do what you want when it comes to choreographing your set. Anyway, judges should be able to understand and explain that meaning back to you in a judges meeting. Really they should be able to interpret that meaning and best advise you on how to improve on it the next time around.

calling out willful ignorance is not rude, it's necessary. since i'm the most vocal person when it comes to this topic let me correct you a little bit, the mistake of using improper songs falls on a team as a whole, whether the members are punjabi or non-punjabi. if people can spend hours and hours "trying to perfect an art" then they can sure as hell take a few minutes to have someone knowledgeable listen to their mix and let them know if they're doing something stupid such as using a song entitled "jinda sukha anthem" in a mix for a lighthearted bhangra performance.

the song jinda sukha anthem is about two sikh punjabi men who chose to give up their normal lives in the name of seeking retribution for atrocities committed against innocent people due to the fact that institutionalized oppression made it impossible to seek any sort of punishment against those responsible for the atrocities. institutionalized oppression which spread as far as the police forces in every district in punjab. so imagine being a little kid and being on a bus with your parents and having your bus pulled over into a police compound. not knowing what the hell is going on but staying quiet because your parents are being quiet, then being let back on to the bus with no explanation for what the purpose of the stop was. all the situations where you're sitting in the back of a car traveling with your family to a gurudwara and being fully aware of the tension every time the car is stopped at a check point. thankfully growing up i wasn't exposed to the police abuse and atrocities committed in the name of rooting out rebellion that people in districts like tarn taran were exposed to. i learned about all this later in life but think about the fact that there may be people in an audience who may have lived through this, who may have been directly impacted by the chaos of that dark era in punjab. go ahead try to argue against that.

competitions should enforce the rule that any mix which contains any reference(s) to alcohol or drug use should result in point deduction.

I'm gonna attempt to comment on these posts. being non-punjabi this stuff is always good to hear because you guys are absolutely right, teams really don't think a lot about the songs that they put into their mixes. generally teams tend to use the songs that are either the most mainstream or which just sound the best based on beat, voice, etc. however, I also don't think that is a bad thing anymore.


I am going to say that the circuit these days is becoming more and more non-punjabi every day. it may not be the majority, but especially among collegiate teams, it is a very large chunk of bhangra dancers in North America and even beyond (Australia, UK, etc.). and speaking as a member of a collegiate team, I will say that we will choose to use songs that our team truly enjoys and wants to dance to. we do actively listen to songs and try our best (with whatever limited Punjabi we know) to not use songs that reference inappropriate things, but at the end of the day if our teammates want to dance to a song, we are going to dance to it. likewise, if there is a song that YOUR TEAM doesn't want to dance to because of the meaning behind it, that is your decision to not use it. song selection is entirely a team decision, and if your team doesn't want to use a certain song because of meaning, by all means don't use it. but don't disrespect other teams for using those songs.


as far as judging goes, i like the idea of every competition having at least one judge who has "sheer Punjabi knowledge", who can make sure that nothing ridiculously offensive is happening, but again the circuit is becoming more and more non-Punjabi. it isn't right at all to have only judges with that true Punjabi knowledge because that just isn't what the circuit is anymore. whether you like that or hate that is up to you, but that's the truth. a team shouldn't win a comp because they are "more Punjabi" in their background and song selection than another team, especially at certain comps out there (BBC, bruin, blowout). if you really don't think a song should be used (like the one mentioned above), explain to teams and let them decide.

 

[rbansal4494]

Thanks for the thoughtful post, Sahil!

Point System/”Nationals”: I know a lot of people have had this thought (it was brought up in the DDN captains group me), but since Elite isn’t really a thing anymore it would be awesome to consider having a point system or some sort of Nationals for teams to ultimately work towards getting invited to. Right now, all the circuit really has is Blowout/Bruin, but even that is barely “Nationals”. Something like this could very easily A) create more buzz around certain competitions, since more will be riding on each placing, B) give teams a common goal to work towards, and C) allow newer teams to compete in the non-bid or non-Nationals affiliated competitions.

A couple thoughts crossed my mind--

• How would this impact the ability for international teams, live teams, and independent collaborations (e.g. Tune Squad) to compete on high profile stages?
• How would you reconcile different approaches (i.e. live/music, folk/modern) under one bid system? Or would this necessarily require multiple systems?

A national bid competition would be exciting, but it seems to me that other high profile competitions must exist outside this system in order to accommodate our circuit's team diversity.

Both of these are great points. For your first point, I don't think that independent teams/international teams should be treated any differently. If "Bhangra Nationals" were run say the way BA Auto Bid system worked, if a team won a competition like Burgh/BBC/Bruin they would automatically be qualified and it would then be on the team as to whether they go.


I think the tricky part is, do we have separate live category and where do we find a middle ground for folk vs modern to have a shot at winning. Obviously a lot of thought would have to go into making the rubric such that everyone feels they have an equal shot at winning (basically the rubric isn't skewed in favor of folk or in favor of modern/gimmicks/whatever you want to call it).


Another tricky part is who gets to compete. Do teams who compete regularly in the season and do well get to compete? Does a team that shows up once a year and wins a comp get to compete? Will there a be cut off in terms of all-guys, all-girls, co-ed, independent, collegiate teams? Based on when the comp is (say summer) would collegiate teams even go?




Lots of good points being brought up! Would love for newer teams and captains to express their thoughts!

 

[Howie Magz]

Thanks for the thoughtful post, Sahil!

Point System/”Nationals”: I know a lot of people have had this thought (it was brought up in the DDN captains group me), but since Elite isn’t really a thing anymore it would be awesome to consider having a point system or some sort of Nationals for teams to ultimately work towards getting invited to. Right now, all the circuit really has is Blowout/Bruin, but even that is barely “Nationals”. Something like this could very easily A) create more buzz around certain competitions, since more will be riding on each placing, B) give teams a common goal to work towards, and C) allow newer teams to compete in the non-bid or non-Nationals affiliated competitions.

A couple thoughts crossed my mind--

• How would this impact the ability for international teams, live teams, and independent collaborations (e.g. Tune Squad) to compete on high profile stages?
• How would you reconcile different approaches (i.e. live/music, folk/modern) under one bid system? Or would this necessarily require multiple systems?

A national bid competition would be exciting, but it seems to me that other high profile competitions must exist outside this system in order to accommodate our circuit's team diversity.

Both of these are great points. For your first point, I don't think that independent teams/international teams should be treated any differently. If "Bhangra Nationals" were run say the way BA Auto Bid system worked, if a team won a competition like Burgh/BBC/Bruin they would automatically be qualified and it would then be on the team as to whether they go.


I think the tricky part is, do we have separate live category and where do we find a middle ground for folk vs modern to have a shot at winning. Obviously a lot of thought would have to go into making the rubric such that everyone feels they have an equal shot at winning (basically the rubric isn't skewed in favor of folk or in favor of modern/gimmicks/whatever you want to call it).


Another tricky part is who gets to compete. Do teams who compete regularly in the season and do well get to compete? Does a team that shows up once a year and wins a comp get to compete? Will there a be cut off in terms of all-guys, all-girls, co-ed, independent, collegiate teams? Based on when the comp is (say summer) would collegiate teams even go?




Lots of good points being brought up! Would love for newer teams and captains to express their thoughts!

There should be a national championship in the American circuit every year. I agree with Rohan's earlier post that winning competitions such as Burgh, BBC, Bruin, should let a team gain entry into this national championship or so called "bid". However, to combat this whole idea of a team coming out of retirement once in a blue moon to win these comps and disappear, it should be made into a purely points system with winning those competitions such as Blowout, Burgh, BBC, and Bruin should generate heavy points. If you really want to make things interesting and generate more new teams being incorporated into these lineups, have smaller competitions winners or teams that place get a guaranteed lineup spot in competitions such as Burgh, BBC, and Bruin. This way newer teams can work hard at these small comps for a chance to compete on a bigger stage that is usually taken up by the heavy hitters. New competitions should always take 2 teams that they have never heard of to give those teams a chance to dance on stage and actually see what a competition experience is like.

In terms of judging in the circuit, I think there should be a criteria to judge. I have noticed that with a lot of the judges recently, there are individuals that have not even danced at a total of 10 competitions that are judging. That is ridiculous in my opinion. I think you should have a certain threshold of competitions these people have danced at in order to judge. Also for the bigger competitions (Bruin, BBC, Blowout, Burgh), those individuals should be people who have held leadership roles on their respective teams, judged at least 5 competitions or have judged some of the bigger competitions to warrant a spot on those panels. This way you would have a rotation of judges both experienced and not experienced.