Teams using cones to frame the stage

[Kaur]

It's a greater challenge to not use markers. We have never used them, at most we have marked center when the competition has not.
-We always use the speakers to set how wide we are going to dance
- use chairs in the audience to mark our inbetween lines.
- use the curtains or other markings the venue may have to mark how deep we are going to dance and to set center on the sides.

If you are utilizing speakers, chairs in the audience, and curtains to position your formations, those are your markers and therefore you are also using markers to dance.

Yes, its a greater challenge but only because it is inefficient compared to a team bringing its own cones/phummans/ladoos/whatever it decides to use.

Also because teams using actual markers get to practice with them and we have 15 min of rehearsal time to figure out what side of speaker we need to stand on, chairs etc and then make sure we don't forget.

 

[Cherag]

It's a greater challenge to not use markers. We have never used them, at most we have marked center when the competition has not.
-We always use the speakers to set how wide we are going to dance
- use chairs in the audience to mark our inbetween lines.
- use the curtains or other markings the venue may have to mark how deep we are going to dance and to set center on the sides.

If you are utilizing speakers, chairs in the audience, and curtains to position your formations, those are your markers and therefore you are also using markers to dance.

Yes, its a greater challenge but only because it is inefficient compared to a team bringing its own cones/phummans/ladoos/whatever it decides to use.

Also because teams using actual markers get to practice with them and we have 15 min of rehearsal time to figure out what side of speaker we need to stand on, chairs etc and then make sure we don't forget.

I do agree on it being inefficient though, and I have talked to judges in the past few years. They are fine with it. As long as you don't step outside your dancing space, it isn't a problem. But the complexity of formations now in comparison to 4 years ago is far greater. There aren't one or two teams doing difficult formations, a lot of teams are, which is amazing to see that such creativity and talent and potential is still alive. But I think that teams who use markers and use them well are doing a phenomenal job and teams who aren't using them and are doing well are also doing a phenomenal job. If the team who had markers had tighter and more crisp formations, well than it worked to their advantage and if it didn't well they need to reevaluate their use of the markers. As long as your performance looks the best on stage, that day, there's no reason you should lose, or be docked points because of a thing such as markers, if your going to use chairs and speakers or even stage monitors, they change at every venue. When I started dancing about 7 years ago, we used to do that as well, but it's better now to be able to have complete control on your performance before getting on stage, and if markers help use em, if not don't judging shouldn't be affected by it.

 

[AnkurK]

OMG WHO THE HELL CARES!

 

[Kaur]

I don't think judges actually dock marks do they? Unless its actually on the rubric they cant. The worse part is when teams use marks and there formations are still off.

 

[AnkurK]

miss pooja dancing

is she using markers to make sure she is on center?

 

[Jacquizz Rogers]

miss pooja dancing

is she using markers to make sure she is on center?

text kar gashtiyee 8)

 

[Kaur]

welcome back Ankur lol

 

[campy614]

Maybe I'm oblivious (or biased since 5AB used a cone for BAB), but I don't think it takes away from the performance. I don't notice them.

I don't sit there and say "Yo that team's KILLING IT. Yellow jori is a NASTY dancer!! But those cones aren't doing it for me" lol.

I think we're overthinking it a little, or maybe being over-critical.

 

[jfried]

Somehow use the items and incorporate them into the set. Set instruments at the front and have a mela at the end using them?

Three words: Traffic. Cone. Mela.

 

[Kartik]

OMG WHO THE HELL CARES!

+1

We've got enough issues with judging in Bhangra to worry about - let's focus on those instead.

 

[desi99]

Not a big fan when teams use cones to make sure they formations are nearly perfect. I have seen dancers looking at them rather than interacting with the audience while on stage.

Rule of thumb for me: If you use the PROP in your routine somwhere and have placed as a marker as well, I wouldn't deduct points. If the PROP is sitting there without being touched, that would be a no no in my books.

+1 they just look dumb, especially when you're watching a team from the front view where you cant see formations anyways.

 

[Sue Sylvester]

We've got enough issues with judging in Bhangra to worry about - let's focus on those instead.

We've got enough issues in the real world to worry about - why even discuss problems in bhangra at all?

Saleem started a specific thread asking for opinions on the role of markers in competitive dance that has generated some interesting perspectives from dancers, judges and veterans. This isn't a thread about judging issues that got hijacked by people talking solely about traffic cones nor is it diverting attention from another thread.

 

[Kartik]

We've got enough issues with judging in Bhangra to worry about - let's focus on those instead.

We've got enough issues in the real world to worry about - why even discuss problems in bhangra at all?

Saleem started a specific thread asking for opinions on the role of markers in competitive dance that has generated some interesting perspectives from dancers, judges and veterans. This isn't a thread about judging issues that got hijacked by people talking solely about traffic cones nor is it diverting attention from another thread.

Haha sure, we can talk about whatever we want. I'm more interested in the fact that there are so many compelling topics that should and can be discussed, instead of place-markers. Of course that doesn't mean that place-markers should not be discussed, but is THIS really the topic that gets everyone interested on BTF these days?

There used to be a time when after each competition in-depth reviews were written and people discussed each performance to great detail. Each video would receive constructive feedback, regardless of placing or scandal. Now we have tons of performances happening, and the only time people feel the need to post/get excited is when someone talks about place-markers or launches a ridiculous attack on "modern co-ed collegiate teams".

The issue isn't that we should be forced to talk only about certain topics - it is more my sadness/confusion as to why people that apparently are very interested in bhangra, spend little time talking about what I would think to be the most interesting aspect: bhangra performances.

And to answer your point about diverting attention, the attention this thread gets literally diverts attention away from other threads which no longer show up on the "recent posts" section. The amount of time spent on the recent posts section correlates strongly with the number of views a thread gets. Thus, the purpose of a "bump".

If y'all are so interested in place-markers, you may also be interested in some awesome performance by UNC, VT, and GMU that have not gotten nearly enough recognition or feedback. I'm sure these teams have put in hundreds of hours and it's unfortunate that we take the time to argue on this thread instead of promote on that thread. I'm guilty of this as well.

 

[Kaur]

Well said Kartik!! I've been sending teams feedback one by one. Iam still working on yours. Once in awhile a post like yours is needed to shake everyone and make us realize that we should focus on the 'Bhangra' and in helping eachother out with constructive feedback.

 

[faizan]

1. The markers convo is super interesting. And it has never even been had in the past. Markers are a big part of a teams prep, and should be discussed. I havnt seen this many vets on a thread in a while.

2. Kartik, the circuit vets have been critiquing and discussing for years. Its the new generation that needs to step up now. We simply dont have the time anymore. The newer/younger dancers need to step up and communicate in order to advance this circuit (which has been pretty stagnant of late)

3. This lack of passion for discussion and lack of feedback will eventually lead in a major decline for the circuit (which in my opion is already underway) Were 2006-2011 the golden years? Could be.

 

[dheerja]

Kartik I hear you - it's hard when the most active thread is something seemingly trivial compared to the routines and videos out there. But to echo Faizan, I literally haven't posted on here in months and randomly saw this thread and the topic intrigued me because it's something I've thought about since we started using markers. Yes it's small compared to the larger evolution of the dance, but it's actually a pretty interesting philosophical discussion for those of us who started dancing without any sort of formation help, including a center marker. While it's not as literally important as critiquing someone's video, it's just another part of the much larger discussion of how the competitiveness of teams keeps evolving.

Regardless, I do agree that the most constructive contribution someone can make to this site is to watch videos and comment. I used to do so on a daily basis and try to do so every once in a while when I have the time. But again, to echo Faizan, there's a clear distinction between the newer/younger generations when it comes to giving constructive feedback and I hope your message gets through.

 

[Kartik]

Thanks for the kind words HK, the feedback will definitely be of much use to us!

Faizan and Dheerja, I agree with you both completely. You're of course allowed to talk about anything you want - when I started with Cornell we also based quarters on "the third seat from the aisle" - and if this gets some of the vets interested, well even better then. This thread specifically, and the vets participating in it, aren't my major concerns; the overall trend that Faizan also brings up is a larger issue for me.

 

[Waleed]

• Solid thread master Saleem.
• If team A & team B had a set with the same amount of complexity/movement when it came to formations (and same number of dancers), I think the team that used less markers might achieve a few more technical points (if the rubric at the competition allows this).
• Personally speaking, credit should be given where credit is due. A team that practices (and performs) a routine with difficult formations with minimal markers should be awarded for their hard work.
• If we compare this element to Bhangra performance in Punjab from the last 15 years (8 person, comparatively 'simpler' formations), they barely use any pre-placed markers. Curtains open & BOOM, they go at it. Food for thought.
• Curious to hear more thoughts/feedback.

 

[hsdeol]

• Personally speaking, credit should be given where credit is due. A team that practices (and performs) a routine with difficult formations with minimal markers should be awarded for their hard work.

how should they be rewarded? and how should this be different than a team that has simple *formations with no makers?

 

[faizan]

Here's the bottom line.


When AEG first started using markers, it helped us, and we improved. We kind of just kept them there because:


A. no one ever said anything to us about it, and
B. We were cleaner when we used them.


Here's my dirty secret that I hate to say aloud: teams that dance without markers have that slight to more than slight bit of a disadvantage.


I think markers should be banned.