HarmanSingh
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I would suggest you re-read my original post again before posting a response like this. I never said girls shouldn't do bhangra. I never said you don't have a right to dance however you like and never said you shouldn't be dancing at all. Do what you please, and have fun doing it. More power to you. This is just a dance and there are a million more important things in the world than a bhangra competition. But you are failing to understand what I am saying.mona99 said:First of all, thank you for posting our video-
Secondly, yes Mowsuf, this performance was outside in the evening and all I have to say was I don't think any of us felt our feet during the whole routine!
Further, Ok wow, I cannot believe that we are still talking about the age old boring story that women shouldn't do bhangra. Really guys, really? Yes historians it is so very true that in the age of our forefathers bhangra in it's many forms, jhummar, luddi, mirza, sammi etc was performed soley by those of the male gender. But no where in history or any bhangra rule book to my knowledge does it state that this beautiful, artistic art form is limited to men only. Bhangra is a beautiful art form. It is exhilirating, it is atheletic, it is graceful and most importantly it's one avenue for young people to stay in touch with their culture and language, so if females are also enticed by this, and chose to partake in the many positives Bhangra provides how can anyone state this is wrong? True, it may not be 'traditional' for girls to perform Bhangra due to the fact that traditionaly this art was performed by males, but tradition changes and evolves over time. There is positive change and there is negative change. In terms of Bhangra, having both genders participate in Bhangra is a positive change. Please tell me, is it not positive that thru Bhangra young people are begining to embrace the Punjabi language? Is it not positive that thru Bhangra young people are more inclined to learn about their culture? Is it not positive that Bhangra is an extracurricular activity that keeps young people busy and out of trouble? Is it not positive that Bhangra provides camaraderie, friendships, team work and a sense of patriotism? Is it not positive that Bhangra is an excellent way to stay in shape and a darn good workout? It may not be 'traditional' for girls to do Bhangra, but take a step back and observe our culture, go back in history and travel to today, many things which were 'traditional' have now evolved, and as far as Bhangra goes, this is a positive change in tradition, and I stand by this thru and thru.
Moving on, many speak of 'manly moves'. What are manly moves? Is squatting low considered manly? Is kicking high considered manly? Is jumping high considerd manly? Is having a wide stance considered manly? If the answer to all of the above is yes, then it is quite absurd, ignorant, and narrow minded to think that only men can do such things.
Let's leave Bhangra alone for a moment shall we? In the spirit of what women can and cannot do historically, physically, culturally, what about Mai Bhago (Mata Bhago) who took up arms on the battlefield along with the other male Sikh warriors? Isn't the battlefield a place historically and traditionally male dominated? Here we are talking about girls doing manly moves on the dance floor (ie, wide stances) but back in the 1700's women sikh warriors with weapons adorned, mounted on horses were fighting side by side with their male counterparts on the bloody battlefields. They fought equally next to the men, and here we are in 2009 arguing that jumping high during a bhangra squat is taboo for women...or excuse me, 'too manly'. Yes Mai Bhago Ji is is a religiously historical reference, but it is an example to the fact that on the the bloody battlefields women were taking up arms and weapons but here we are in 2009 saying that squatting on stage is 'manly'.
How about the atheletics, as I also consider Bhangra an atheletic form that requires strength, agility, power, and stamina. There are women wrestlers, martial artists (me being one of them), hockey players, soccer players, gymnasts, should these women not squat, jump, kick, grapple because this is too manly? Should I not go to my dojo today and spar in fear that my kick might be too high and therefore 'manly' and a cultural taboo?
The point here is that women are equal to men in every way, so if women are going to do Bhangra, why in the world would we not want to make every stance low, make every move powerful, make every jump high. It is this exact narrow-mindedness and gender-bias of what women can and cannot do that is holding our culture and community back.
As per your post Harman Singh Ji, you make reference that we try to act like men, and wearing chadray make us feel somehow 'manly'. You are entitled to your opinions however misguided and ignorant they may be, however I cannot pass up your comments without responding. Our team is firmly secure in our femininity, and it is quite absurd for educated women to be wanting to act like men! Do you think when we teach our team members a move we say 'do the jhummar as if you were a guy" how obscure! We perform and execute the art according to our abilities, our own translation and our own style. Sure our atheleticism and our own style allows us to be big in our moves, low in our stances, strong in our structure, and this type of capability is not just limited to men Harman Singh.
As for our team, Harkiran is right, we have two members who recently got married, and our others members are busy with grad/medical school and others busy with furthering their careers, but to still be taking out time for Bhangra shows the passion and love we have for this art. Our facial expressions to you might be over the top, but our passion for the art is over the top and this exubertes on stage thru our faces...that's just us, either you like it or you don't, we just do what we love-![]()
As for our team riding on the fact that we are all girls, that is so 2002. There are many female teams in the circuit now and none of them have an advantage being all-female. We don't go into a competition thinking we have the advantage that we are all-female, yes, maybe this was a factor back in 2002 or 2003, but I will say nothing further to this other than the fact that our track record speaks for itself. Being all-female may have helped ride the wave for a year, but not for 7 years.
Finally, to all the women out there, unfortunatley our community and culture still has a ways to go in terms of surpassing the many gender-biases that exsist. My advice to you is if you are passionate about something, wether it be Bhangra or something else, hold your head up high and chase whatever it is you want, if your intentions are right then Waheguru will always be there for you. The UBC Girlz fight since 2002 has been gender equality not just in Bhangra but in many other realms, and the obstacles we faced and still face are manifold, but being strong, grounded, passionate and most of all always believing has allowed us to make change in our community. Sure we are just a bunch of girls doing Bhangra, but thru this we have been able to influence many young girls, troubled youth and women to step up against adversity and societal limitations put on them by narrow-minded, ignorant and biased individuals.
I am so proud of all the women in the Bhangra circuit right now, as you are the very definition of Punjabi women: strong and passionate warriors.
If I offended anyone with this post, then my sincerest apologies as that was not my intention. My plight for our community is equality, once we have that we will see less battered and suppressed wives, mothers, daughters and sisters....let's not put limitations, let's open doors......
Rab Rakha,
Mandeepak Kaur Patrola
ubc girlz bhangra team
My critique was about your PERFORMANCE...not you. I said you guys act over the top with your facial expressions...which is something EVERYONE mentioned in there "pet peeves of bhangra" thread (including you Meistro). It reflects a certain level of ignorance to be yelling and acting as if you guys are filming a movie while on stage because it looks silly and childish. Again, this is something most everyone here said they don't like...I simply pointed out the fact that you do it. Feel free to watch any video of any team considered "folk" either here or in Punjab and you will never see those type of facial expressions. I even know at a certain competition a person from a team was marked down significantly for simply winking on stage because an old school judge thought it was disrespectful (this was a man who winked).
Second, for you to even mentoin Mai Bhago in this conversation is one absurd, and two disrespectful. You girls are neither close to her nor doing ANYTHING similar to her. She was a woman who risked her life and gave her life to fighting for humanity and justice. You ladies go on stage and dance. Don't even bring this sort of thing up. It is an entirely invalid comparison and if your mind is so filled with ego to think you are even SOMEWHAT similar to her, I would suggest reading on her history and asking yourself if you dancing is at all similar. It always boggles my mind when teams act as if they are doing some sort of service to the community and world when they practice and perform. No. You aren't. You are doing something for yourself and for fun. I seriously doubt people in Punjab are sitting around celebrating the fact that we go to hotels, sing dirty bolis, get trashed and high and dance. We aren't doing shit for the culture or for the world. Mai Bhago did. So lets dismiss that sort of comparison and refrain from comparing ourselves to Sants and heroes because we are not close. Even if you have an academy and want to say you are giving little girls inspiration...you are not close to Mai Bhago. At all.
Also, as Meistro himself has said in the past (but can't say now out of his blind obsession for defending teams he is cool with)..certain things are disrespectful for women to do on stage (ie: the girl shimmying in the middle of the stage while going down, slapping her thighs, etc). You guys are behaving in a way that older generations would be appalled by on stage. Sure, women can play sports and do whatever else they want and I fully support that. But no..a woman playing kabaddi with her shirt off would be entirely unacceptable as would a woman playing kabaddi with a man. It is not part of our culture for women to go on stage in chadras, slap there thighs and shimmy. Sorry, but that is the way it is. And it is not sexist to think that way. The fact is men and women are different. And have different ways of behaving. I can't go on stage in a woman's suit and do giddha. I would be laughed off stage and viewed as a disgrace. Thats not to say women shouldnt do bhangra, because if they really want to..go for it. Its not a big deal either way. But it is important to respect certain things in our culture.
I really didn't want to go into all of that, but your post sort of required me to respond. I was simply talking about the dancing style which shows little to no grace and is focused on "hitting" the moves rather than flowing into them. You want to see a team with girls who perform with more tact and femininity? See VCU. They have girls who are respecting the culture while still performing as strong women.
Again, this was not meant to be an attack on you ladies because I do not know any of you personally and do not want to make assumptions about you all. I am simply talking about in general, these things are not cool.
To clarify one last time because I know some people have the affinity to jump to assumptions whenver girls and bhangra are mentioned..i never said girls shouldn't do bhangra.